Oprah for President

But on the flip side, if you don't identify as a feminist, you're clearly a sexist misogynist. Even though most people don't identify as one.

 

A gentler approach would be good. We can both agree on that.

I think my whole stance about fat shaming works most likely came from my disgust at the body positivity movement. While I do think that photoshopping people to unrealistic body perfection in ads can mislead and make people feel insecure. I think it's also worth noting that telling people they're healthy and attractive at any size is just as messed up.

 

Soul, contrary to what your professors are telling you, we are not blank slates at birth who are entirely carved out by societal expectations. I hope you're getting this education on a full ride scholarship, because they're teaching you a lot of misinformation to put yourself in thousands of dollars of debt.

Parents have tried to steer their baby daughters from girl toys, but they still gravitate toward them. Gender roles are largely governed by nature, not nurture.

https://www.math.kth.se/matstat/gru/godis/sex.pdf

Autism, PDD-NOS & Asperger's fact sheets | WHy do more boys have Autism?


But at least you've got excellent taste in music

 

Ayn Rand says you're wrong (people are born blank slates), but what does she know? Hyde (2005) American Psychologist. 60 (6): 581–592., reviewing 46 meta-analyses found some gender differences, mostly in attitudes toward sex, but 78% were small or close to zero. The investigator concludes: "It is time to consider the costs of overinflated claims of gender differences. Arguably, they cause harm in numerous realms, including women’s opportunities in the workplace, couple conflict and communication, and analyses of self-esteem problems among adolescents." Vive La Différence!

 

I hope this was an attempt at humor. But was wondering what you thought of my egalitarian remark: glad to see you see the logic in it

About your arguing for fat shaming: on who exactly would you apply your tactics? Friends & family (as in people you know and also have some insight of), obnoxious fat strangers you just KNOW () got to have bad eating habits?
Coworkers you're not sure of what they eat but who you are familiar enough with to fat shame?
An obese looking person in front of you in a fast food restaurant?
Forgive me if you pointed out already.

 

Not

Sorry this sounds like another hypothetical.

I can’t find any evidence for people asking for this - who do you know whose is doing it? Is this kind of thing happening or in place somewhere in the world?

I did find this from 2013 - The [US] military has different physical standards based on age and sex for the Army and Marines. In either service, the standards for both sexes would be the same for those trying to get into the infantry and other combat arms specialties.

I'd also add that i don't really see been a combat soilder as a 'normal' job.

The thing is that it is not discriminating to ask for the right qualifications for a job (as long as it isn’t - you have to be white – you have to have a dick and you must not like people of the same sex etc).

No feminists is demanding women have to be given jobs as surgeons even though they don’t even have a first aider certificate let alone a medical degree.

It is fine to say someone has to able to lift X amount – have to have a certain educational attainment or pass certain training - that might favour some people and disqualify other, of both sexes.

 

6

I do wish you’d read the posts as this has been covered and your stance once again seems black and white - if someone doesn’t believe that insulting and abusing others is a good thing then they MUST be someone that wants to do nothing or even encourage unhealthy lifestyles.

You say you want compromise but it’s like you are asking an abusive husbands to compromise between punching their wives in the face and not punching them in the face, and deciding that the compromise is to allow them to slap their wives in the face.

This seems a lot like your argument against ‘political correctness’ that seemed to come down to you wanting to be able to say racist jokes without been pulled up for it– to which people asked why do you want to make racist jokes?

I mean you basically want permission to be abusive and I wonder why?

 

6

For fuck sake we went through all this BS including the whole 7% crap – look the only one that is pushing propaganda around here is you.

 

6

Thing is that I don’t think anyone here is opposed to prompting healthy lifestyles, and I think most people would support publically funded education (to counter interested parties adverts) alongside regulation to have proper labelling and for example, to curb things like sugar and fat content in some foods especially those aimed at children. The problem is that you seem more interested in wanting to insult people you don’t seem to think of as attractive as fat, gross and ugly.

Now you are just taking the piss – READ THE POSTS – I don’t think anyone here is championing unhealthy lifestyles they just think that insulting and abusing people isn’t a civilised or productive way to go about it.

 

6

Oh what a Nunes dud

I mean come on LOL after all your bluster you have nothing – you admit this has nothing to do with being male or female it’s just about the physical ability of a human being to do some specific and limited number of jobs?

BUT earlier you implied men were ‘better’ at a host of jobs not just physical ones, didn’t you specifically mention engineering.

I’ll repeat what I said earlier it isn’t discriminating to ask for the right qualifications for a job, educational and physical (as long as it isn’t – ‘you have to be white’, ‘you have to have a dick’ or ‘you must not like people of the same sex’ etc) (although I think acting is different but having said that I have seen women play Hamlet).

 

6

Again – READ THE POSTS – you are entitled to your opinion but as I’ve said I’ve heard the same argument being used by sexists to defend discrimination.

In that they say -women are as a group better listeners and are more empathic. Men as a group are more assertive and less caring.

So the argument goes women are more ‘wired’ to bringing up children and other such ‘caring’ jobs or in roles where they take orders (because they are so good listeners) while men are more ‘wired’ to give orders and for leadership roles where feelings and caring would get in the way.

The problem is that I’m not sure the stereotype is accurate and I think can often get in the way, as in men believing they have to act as the stereotype dictates (being ‘strong’, not feeling fear, being assertive, of not looking to women for leadership but being their protector) or be thought of as ‘lesser men’ of not being ‘masculine’. It can lead to men feeling they are not ‘real men’ if they don’t ‘control’ women and see assertive women as not been ‘real women’ (who are mean, spiteful and vindictive, man haters).

 

6

This makes me curious as to what ‘education’ you basing your ideas on – you’ve admitted your knowledge of economic mainly comes from a bad sci-fi novel and your understanding of history on some stuff you can’t really remember that you learnt at school.

So where did you gleam your knowledge of human development and child psychology?

As the parent of a daughter we didn’t ‘steer’ her to any particular toys, games, activities children have a tendency to choose their own path if you let them. She liked playing with dolls and loved cuddly animals but also wanted water pistols and nerf guns as gifts and really loved climbing, football and skateboarding (and hated dresses) and her friends were the same.

So from my experience (although I’ve not done a formal study) there isn’t a set ‘gender’ type kids these days are usually a mix - there is a boy on our street that loves dressing up as Elsa from Frozen but pushes around a toy tank.

I think that was always the case but in the recent past there was a lot of social pressure for children to conform to the stereotype of their gender - my mother would always buy my daughter ‘girly things’ (make up and dresses) because she was a 'girl' but learnt that my child wasn’t impressed by them and switched to other stuff (football boots and baggy jeans) although dolls would always go down fine.

It seems to me that you are projecting - you want there to be a gender stereotype, so you see gender stereotypes.

 

Depends on what society perceives as fat shaming.

Many people in London, including the mayor, thought this ad shamed fat people:

I personally think it motivates the viewer to get in shape more than it disrespects the overweight. But I know many on here would disagree.

We live in a culture now where many people are too afraid to tell their own life partner that they are gaining weight. I don't think this should be a fear to have at all. Especially if you love the other person, and you wish to be attracted to them for years to come.

 

I think compromise is achievable. My opinions aren't set in fossil. I used to be against abortion, now I'm pro choice. I also used to be against private ownership of handguns too, now look what happened. I'm subject to change. Maybe not immediately after reading one of your posts, but I can consider it for a while.

We've been over this before. There's a huge difference between etiquette and political correctness.

Etiquette/ethics is how people of different cultures, religions, races, ethnicities, worldview, and socioeconomic background navigate around and get along with different people in polite society.

Political Correctness on the other hand, is a system of lying designed to save the feelings of delicate snowflakes at the expense of reason, logic, and truth. At it's worse, it is deadly. For example, it stopped Brittish police from stopping the serial rape from Muslim grooming gangs in Rotherham.

 

We sure did, and I already explained you can be an anti-feminist and still believe in equal rights for men and women.


And as a side note, I'll have to come back to this tomorrow night. Got some 3d prints I need to run for tomorrow.

 

I gave some examples. Maybe use them?
Most people don't fatshame by ads on a building, but in person. And i was asking you as a person, not an advertiser or mayor

I don't see that as pure/blatant fat shaming either. I can see its also not something every unfortunate overweight person likes to be confronted with on a regular basis. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

That ad might motivate some, it will definitely make more people think or exchange thoughts about it. In that regard it has use.
I don't think it would be good if it would be there all the time. Or a real common thing and more obvious a shaming practice instead of an inspiring message.

I think this is something that always happened in certain relationships. But there's a kind of media who acts like all current problems are caused by new unfavorable changes. Its clear you inform yourself in that news corner as well.
I suspect other cultures are even more retarded with this kind of politeness. Just an example that comes to mind: I know a brasilian family where it was unheard of to tell mom/wife the truth about a bad hairday or an untasty meal. They just lied to her chronically. One of her daughters now lives near me in the Netherlands and oh boy, was she shocked how honest people are here (not in the least to your own mom!! While in my family and culture you might act polite/dishonest to a stranger or neighbour, but you can tell such stuff to your close relatives. In fact it is sooner perceived as stupid not to). She explained though this was not just a bad family habit but is common behavior in classic catholic brasil/portugese culture. I don't think i could happily live with it. Of course partly because I'm a typical product of dutch culture

 

I don't see the billboard as fat shaming, certainly not like the crude pictures you've posted. What I see wrong with it as is its emphasis on outward physical appearance as the sine qua non of well being. Many people are simply unable to attain that goal of culturally defined outward physical appearance no matter how hard they try, and to have this message beamed at them constantly is a challenge to their self-concept as worthy persons. Others are able to do this, but a lot of those spend a good chunk of their lives working on social presentation of self and outward physical attractiveness to the point of neglecting other worthy goals like reading and thinking. So shallow; so sad. Notice her tan. Think potential skin cancers in a decade or so. Should we worry about that health hazard? I think the billboard reflects a messed up value system that is a serious problem for the health of our society. People with those values are deformed.

Are you married? I suspect not. Looks may be important in the initial attraction, but marriage is so much more than that. If my wife put on some pounds, I don't think it would affect our relationship much. The big draws are character and compatibility of shared values. I expect that by the time we're in our sixties, we'll both fall short of the billboard ideal, but will still have our love to keep us warm and interested.

Gotta tell you, those attitudes of yours are ugly, man. Need to work on 'em. But don't give up. If you work at it, you can get yourself into spiritual shape. We'll have you thinking like a decent human being in no time. Try some simple spiritual exercises every morning and before turning in at night. Just stand in front of a mirror and visualize what you'll look like in thirty-five years or so and wonder what that woman in the poster with the hot bod would think of you--unless you have lots of money! Be honest. Don't overlook the thinning hair, the sagging muscles, the wrinkles around the eyes, the protruding gut. Think Trump, without the money. Then chant:All things are transitory", and ask:"Will she still need me, will she still feed me, when I'm sixty-four?

 

It would already be a better ad if the pic would be of a healthy woman with an 'average' body, not a body of a woman who's partly lucky enough to in the first place be able to get the by society idealized 'hot bod'. Its about health isn't it, not beauty standards.

 

Maybe 6 will post some pictures of his Greek God body. You know give women and us men an idea of what we can achieve too.

Some men have no idea how hard it is to be a women and be "thin". Their bodies are by designed trying to hold onto fat to support children in a way men do not. That's biology it does not matter how many gym visits you do. Some much more so than others. Yes they can be healthy despite this and have slim bodies men desire but some men have unrealistic expectations. Often men who do not hold themselves to high body standards. They do not have the 6 pack abs they are not 6 feet 2 inches tall. Yet they expect to find women who are 120 pounds with D breasts.

A lot of people you would call fat are very healthy. For example an NFL lineman. I gurentee he can bench press you and work a hard manual labor job or work the gym for hours. He is healthy yet he is "fat". Some of them get too fat and there is a problem but the BMI index is always the best indicator of health. Science and medicine are now proving that. Far shaming usualy relies on the BMI.

 

If we are going to actors/actresses and TV personalites...I prefer Octavia...I never was an Oprah person....Do like her in The Color Purple, though.