One of the many problems with heaven and hell...

I'm not sure what studies on prayers outcome you have seen, but ever study I have look at suggest just the oppsite. Perhaps your studies involved non Christians? Studies that involve the sick can be really be telling. I myself
have seen very dramatic answers to prayer, and the kind that really leave you shaking your head. And when I talk with other Christians they have some truly amazing stories to tell. My father years ago had a illness called weeping exzema. At the age of 6 years old he had lost all of his hair and puss would be running down his head because of this. The doctors told my grandmother they had no cure, and so she went down to the end of the street and asked the minister if he would pray for my father. The minister ask her if she believed if Jesus could heal her son, she said she did. He walked back to the house and prayed for my dad and then left. The next morning when my grandmother came down to change my dads badages she could see that all the puss had dried up and just fell to the bed in flakes, my grandfather who was an atheist
saw this and went to work that day telling everyone that God had just healed his son.

 

I can't really give you an answer, I wish I could, but God alone knows, and He has not shared that with me. Some might say 13 years of age others might say something else. I think God looks at us as individuals, and only God can determine when that person has accepted or rejected Him. Sometimes a person will live his whole life in opposition to God, and then because of some event or reason turn and accept Him. Only God sees the big picture.

 

Yeah, that’s beautiful. Communists and Nazis aren’t rejecting anyone, it’s bourgeoisie and the Jews who reject them Going this way, we can justify any massacre and holocaust.

As for me, I am going to blame neither God nor anybody else for my choice, whether it’s poor or not. But the question remains: Does God love those who reject him? And even more interesting question: Does that god of yours respect his creations’ free will? It seems that he doesn’t since he created a kind of GULAG for those who dared to choose something different.

 

What kind of God of Love would He be if he let an unresentful rapist go free of charge?

 

This is a very famous question, by the way: every other totalitarian government poses it before the citizens in order to justify forthcoming repressions. And rapists seldom suffer after the loss of freedom, it’s average people who receive slavery and hatred instead of promised love. On the contrary, when you choose freedom, you receive love for free. I am sorry for using this analogy again, but since you are asking such a question, it looks quite pertinent. I’ve thought that the message of Jesus was not about restriction, but about freedom.

In any case, it is for certain that revengefulness and omnibenevolence are absolutely incompatible.

 

unresentful or unrepentant?

 

God created the GULAG for the Devil and his angles. God wants everyone to be in heaven, and He has issued free tickets for all. Now if you take Gods ticket and throw it back in His face, thats your choice. All you are telling God is want to be a member of that other group, the same evil group God has warned you about. And as you know, that group hangs out at the GULAG.
God respects his creation, the problem is, His creation does not respect Him.
The reason most refuse the ticket is because it might require a change in their lifestyle, so now they blame God because they have chossen the road that leads to hell.

 

Babies are not tossed into Hell, so there is no such person.

 

So God’s a kind of heavenly Stalin! Yeah, I no longer wonder that he, I mean Stalin, cringed before Orthodox Christian priests just during the GULAG era. Well, thank you, Campbell, for the answers. As usual, your revelations are astounding and mind-twisting

No, I didn’t say anything about membership. I am saying about love; don’t you understand this yet? And after your words I am inclined to conclude that the god you believe in is not all-loving.

And he is so petty that he hates them just for their disrespect. Actually, this would be terrible if the creator of the universe were so petty.

Most people haven’t received any ticket, Campbell I certainly don’t have and even don’t need it. Knock, and it shall be opened unto you. There is nothing more simple, but I guess you like decorations – books, tickets, etc.

 

God loves this world, and if the world loved Him, His words they would imbrace.God created a Heaven for a people that will love each other and together we will all love God. Heaven will not be filled with a bunch of disrespecting jerks, we got that here on earth. The ticket is received when you ask Christ to be the Lord of your life, and ask Him to forgive you of sin. If you do that with a sincere heart, Christ Spirit will enter you, and He will seal you as one of His own. Yet because of the hardness of mans heart most will reject God's free gift of Salvation. I have found this to be the case. Unless a man is born again he will not see the Kingdom of God.
Have you been born again?

 

Certainly not in your sense of this phrase. That born-againness looks like a brand, and besides, I have no idea why I should seek after the kingdom of that divine sadist you have described. I have no masochistic dispositions. You’re saying that he loves this world; well, okay, it is not a miracle when a sadist loves somebody in his or her own special way.

Really? Look at it this way: Being omniscient, God couldn’t fail to know they would become what you call disrespecting jerks. So he invited them to live miserable and evil as they were/would become, but when they came, changed his mind (or whatever he had instead of it) and said: No, no, you jerks just stay here for a while and then go to hell, you don’t belong here.

Fortunately, reading such a statement about those ill-fated disrespecting jerks, we can recollect a well-known saying:

And, behold, there are last (that is to say, disrespecting jerks) which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

You see, Campbell? Not I, but Jesus himself has an objection

Actually, your picture reminds me of something comical – some boring office with your god as a manager, where talented people get fired just for their “disrespectful” hair style. As if disrespect is the most terrible sin.

P.S. Do you call yourself “born again”?

 

how could hell exist??? any compassionate being in heaven would suffer knowing their brothers were suffering. that is the definition of compassion, to suffer with. so any true being deserving heaven would choose to join their brothers in hell.

com·pas·sion

[size=-1]NOUN:[/size]
Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.



so id rather hang out with jesus in hell. then campbell in heaven.
compassion was jesus's trip and his most pure message to us. thats why he hung out with lepers.

 

Being good or evil is a choice everyone makes. God did not invite us to be evil, Jesus said, we should seek the Kingdom of God first. Thats what God invited us to do. And it was Jesus who said that unless a man is Born Again he will not see the Kingdom of God. And Jesus makes plain that most would not accept His truth, and that's why He makes the statement, "How shall they neglect so great a Salvation?'' Without question, people will work their whole lives opposing God, because they choose to be an extension of the orginal rebellion. Most people will find much more in common with God's adversary, then they will ever find in common with God. God does not send anyone to Hell. The people who will find themselves in Hell, are the one's who have freely made the choice to go there themselves. And the real sadist, are the one's who make that choice.

 

Before you write off Hell, you might want to consider what a former Ex-atheist has to say about Hell.

Http://www.visionsofjesuschrist.com/weeping322.htm

 

im not an atheist, nor do i care what an ex-atheist has to day. also im not entirely writing off hell, i see it does exist, though only as a state of mind, and like any state of mind it is a choice, not a punishment.

i cannot relate to a god that is within the realm of duality, because there is a conciousness that resonates beyond duality, and that is what liberation is about. jesus cant save me, as my choices are my own, only i can save ("set free") myself.

why would i pray to a god that would only accept half of me??? a god that says..."your kindness, your love, your compassion is holy, this i accept. but you anger, your sex, your fear, (ect) i do not accept. that is not holy."

i see that the whole of creation is holy campbell. light and dark are not opposing at all, they are different degrees of the same phenomenon. like a wave.

...im struggle to communicate properly what im getting at here. ...

anger and bliss are also one wave, and we expireince a blend of the two always. if one disapears so does the other. your god wants to eradicate my anger, but that would eradicate my bliss as well. im not against anger, though i believe it should be moved into with awarness, because when one is fully aware, one is master of that which is being expirienced. so i became master of my anger, not through repression, but awareness.

 

It is hardly possible to consider these your words, Campbell, as a response, rather they are a kind of conjuration made up from the usual born-again platitudes in order to keep your belief intact, let alone that you didn’t answer my simple question. It’s up to you, of course. As far as I can see from your own statements, being born again and good means mainly to follow the rules unquestioningly and without any doubt, like robots. If you do really want to sound convincing you’d better describe the alleged greatness of that salvation (salvation from what, by the way? Looks like from free thinking). So far, I can see only a great drill But what else can we expect from a god without compassion?

 

If God did not have compassion He would of not sent His Son to die for the sins of the world. And if you had taken the time to consider the prophecies of the Bible you would of understood this. Yet I feel you are more about not wanting to believe than to investigate the claims of the Scriptures. I believe the Bible, because it's Words are true and can be tested. I also believe in the Bible because God has revealed Himself to me by His power, that I have seen in my lifetime. The more you seek out Christ, the more you understand He is more than a religion, He is the living God. And a God of Wonder.

 

Way back in 1973 I had an encounter with two demons. It was an off and on kind of thing that ended on a Saturday in Crete Ill. When other Christians prayed and asked God to remove these two from my presence, they had to leave. They did not want to go, and I still recall one of them saying it would be better to be destroyed, then to burn in Hell. I think this world is so into their own ideas about what is true, that they have ignored the Book that speaks the truth. The Bible tells us, that Hell is a place of torment, and fire. And that demon while fighting not to leave, revealed in the struggle, that the Bible spoke the truth.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that Jesus is going to be hanging out in Hell. It was Jesus who said in Matthew 25:26 "And these shall go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT; but the righteous into eternal life".
I believe you have some real misconceptions about the compassion of Jesus. When Christ returns to this world, He will be a friend to sinners who have repented, and will be a judge to the unrepentant. When Christ returns the Bible clearly tells us, that the world will not be pleased. And the reason for this, is because most of the world hates Him, and His authority, just like so many on these posts. A fearful day is comeing when the mockers of God will stand before our King. For those who love Him a day of wonder, and for those who hate Him, a day of horror. For the Bible tells us, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

If you have investigated the claims of the Scriptures thoroughly, why are you still in need of belief? As for me, most of all I want now to understand the trick with compassion. You should not remind me that it was out of compassion Jesus didn’t evade the cross. But as far as I understand you, after that god of yours sent his son to suffer on the cross, he has without the slightest uneasiness tolerated people suffering in hell. It is beyond my comprehension how it is possible to call such a being compassionate and all-loving – I have already said this here, and please, don’t tell me again that those guys in hell are just disrespecting jerks Whoever they are, they deserve love as any other living creature, and I cannot imagine a human being who has freely agreed to endure unbearable and endless torments.