Oh my F**king Gawd!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe you should go back and read your original comments. Pay particular attention to the way I politely pointed out that the word 'faggot' could be considered offensive. Then notice your ignorant, childish replies, such as "the word faggot is the name of a minced meat like pie/ ball in gravy.. i think it is your brain that is being derogatory and so your offending yourself".

Quite. And just because you've been oblivious to homophobia, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist and it doesn't mean it isn't a serious problem.

Of course it's not. But it's your responsibility to consider the unintended effects that your words might have.

Oh, ok. So if you start calling people niggers and coons, I suppose I should just ignore that too, since I'm not black? Since when do we insist that the victims of prejudice are the only ones able to speak out against it?

If you use the word faggot as an insult, you're pandering to an assumption that homosexuality is in itself, insulting. That's offensive.

Oh please, pay fucking attention. There's pages and pages here of me clearly explaining my position, and by failing to take the time to understand it you're just demonstrating your own ignorance and not doing much to convince me that there's any validity, coherence or moral compassion to your point of view. If you actually bothered to read what I'd written, you'd understand that I'm not saying that the use of a word will automatically incite people to homophobia. What I've argued repeatedly is that it contributes to a culture where homosexuality is seen as an abhorrence which in turn, creates an environment where homophobia flourishes. If that's too complex a concept for you to understand, then I really am wasting my time trying to explain it to you.

 

No not at all; just because I wouldn't say it myself and might not like the fact that someone else says it, I don't feel I have the right to tell that someone else what not to say. By all means you're welcome to tell the person that you don't think it's a good thing for them to say (as you did). But you must also be aware that they have every right to say anything they choose. I think we agree that there are contexts in which the most shockingly offensive language is quite acceptable, and I've repeatedly made the cultural and linguistic case for doing so, and the case for total freedom of expression. Apart from the specific instance of usage in this thread I think we are fundamentally in agreement.

 

Can this madness stop now ?.

 

You can talk! I think it's a fascinating issue.

 

What issue would that be then ?.

Dok getting over excited over a minor point and wishing to bang on and on about it.. The conversation you and Dok were having has a point him and smarties issue died about 6 pages ago.

 

The issue of freedom of speech, and the linguistics of being offensive. Didn't you read it? There were excellent points being made on all sides. It's a difficult and complicated question.

Well you might've noticed I just ignore all the personal stuff and meta-debate, it's all rather tedious and life's too short!

 

I did read what you were both saying , i just felt like the personal arguement should have been cleared up a long time ago..Dok again drags a lamb to the slaughter having been there i just felt bad for the chap.. He sits were ever postulating/articulating etc etc over a very minor thing of wich i am sure smartie had no bad intentions at all.

I did notice..and i shall remember that when your next giving me grief

 

oops i should have said a carrot to the chopping board.

 

Now there's a picture i don't want to see before bed

 

Yup, I think we've cleared that up nicely. We're in agreement.

Ironically, it would have stopped at this very point if you'd not just stuck your nose in and inflamed the discussion

It's called a discussion. It takes two. I could hardly be 'banging on' if there weren't others also 'banging on', could I? If you're not capable of anything other than being an offensive little shit, I suggest you keep your fucking nose out and let the adults have a conversation about grown-up issues. If you've anything constructive to contribute, please feel free. If all you're here to do is provoke another argument, then why not spend your time doing something a little more constructive for a change?

Look, I'm really sorry that you lack the intelligence to keep up with the discussion, but that's really not my problem. If you don't want to read it, then you know where the exit is.

And if you did have the intelligence to follow the discussion, then you'd have noticed that I never once accused Smartie of posting his original comment with any ill intent. If I mean something, I say it. If I thought he was a homophobe, I'd say so. You've got a bit of a fucking nerve criticising my behaviour when your entire contribution to this thread seems to be made with the intention of being abusive and inflaming a thread which was on the verge of coming to a civilised close.

 

I was just joking Dok' why do you think i waited till the point i did.

Ohhh get you.. it is diffrent if i say something and it is dragged repeatedly out for pages and pages merely for a 'joke'. You was 'banging on' as far as smartie was concerned anyway..

Thats all you needed to realy say.. just because he joked and you probaly thought 'right ya bastard' does not mean you was not 'banging on' about a minor point.

I said i did read it , read . i thought your conversation was very intresting as it happens..that is why i waited till now , like we agree it was coming to a natural end.

I apologise if tht is the way it came over.. i just meant that you realy did not need to strech a none intentional minor comment over pages and pages.

 

Matthew, your meaning isn't clear at the best of times, so I'm not gonna feel particularly responsible for misunderstanding you when your 'humour' just seems to consist of insulting me.

What the fuck are you on about? This doesn't even make sense!

Again, what the fuck? Matthew, this does not make sense. I have no idea what you're talking about.

I accept your apology. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but you really need to be a little more careful about chucking around insults if your intent is just to be humorous. Remember, what may sound funny when you hear it in your own voice in your own head comes across entirely differently when it's just dry, written words on a page.

And again though, I wasn't 'strectching' anything out. A point of discussion arose and people discussed it. That's what happens on forums. If people really don't want to discuss it, then they can just ignore me. Otherwise, it takes two to tango.

 

I use the term faggot to mean a piece of chopped up meat with spices. I'd much rather be gay than called a faggot!

 

I want to point out that a) I'm well aware of the negative uses of the word faggot and b) I really dislike homophobia. I merely mentioned what I said before as someone above mentioned that there is a food by the name of faggot, another poster above expressed their disbelief and I was just confirming that there is such a food that exists.

 

Exactly the point, really. Now if Smartie had just responded with a little civility rather than going out of his way to behave like a petulant little brat, then the matter would've ended there. He didn't even need to agree with me. All it would've taken would've been something along the lines of "I don't think using the word faggot in such a context is a problem, but I'll give some thought to what you've said. Y'know, tact.... compromise, dimplomacy..... learning to live with one another and get along. All those hippy virtues that are so easily espoused but much more easily cast aside.

When you strip the argument back to its basics, I'm arguing in favour of a little consideration and compassion for a minority of people who're still frequently persecuted in this country. Oooh, I'm so evil. Horrible, horrible Dok. Pardon me for showing some fucking human concern for the plight of others. Hippy forums my hairy fucking arse.

 

No i know your intentions are honourable and all that Dok' .. Believe it or not i have to bite my tongue when people around me are making mindless comments about race sexuality etc etc .. just tearing some one a new arse hole is not needed all the time. I am quite sorry to drag my point out because i understand your point of view and fully agree with it. I realy just thought you went ott with smartie ..That is all i was so horribly trying to explain.

 

No problem, Matthew. I think we'd probably end up agreeing a lot more if we just understood what the fuck each other was talking about

As far as Smartie goes, if he'd have responded reasonably to my initial polite comment, I'd not have taken issue with him. If I've gone off at him, it's because of his attitude, not his opinion.

 

I think the majority the mis-understanding is on your part *matthew must try harder in future*. Basicaly that is one things i was saying

We both use fairly abrasive language somtimes, but hey..sometimes we get to agree .

 

I think that's just the difference in the way you and Smartie are made up Dok. I think both your humour / way of dealing with stuff clashed on here for some reason.

A lot of the time we all see and say the same things... but because we express ourselves in different ways we end up at cross purposes.

Shame really, but that's the nature of the forum beast I guess