Official Bible Interpretation Thread

The thread was created for us to give interpretations of scriptures. Over the first 6 pages, only Lynnbrown has submitted a passage for that purpose. Perhaps asking 'what's the best way to interpret' was not the way to start.

Some will cite documentations, precedents, history, logic - but others, like myself, will just use their own heart and mind. The worst that can happen is I'll not be agreed with. The best that can happen is that I'll learn something new, see something not considered before, become illuminated.

So does anyone else have an opinion on Lynnbrown's query? Or another passage for discussion?

 

If it doesn't make sense why did you bring it up?

Very good.

Belief is merely the acceptance that something is true, whether it is true or not.

Yes it does.

If you understand what Jesus says at Matthew 23:23-24, you will understand what Jesus says at Matthew 9:13 and Matthew 12:7.

Also please answer my question

 

I've even got another one...and thanks for that Worldsofdarkblue...
At the beginning of Genesis, specificially Gen. 1: 26-28. Clearly God is creating Man - as in humans...and even told to be fruitful and multiply, have dominion, etc.
Then we have Gen. 2: 15-22. I believe this indicates in verse 15 that Adam was a separate man from the others made already, and made just to dress and keep Eden. "And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it." Eve was made separate from other women (imo) from his rib, to be Adam's helpmeet. Meanwhile there was a whole group of people being fruitful and mutiplying.
All of the talk about incest, I never and still don't understand. The way I understand, there were Plenty of pickings from the Land of Nod - which is discussed on in
Gen. 4: 16 - from the beginning.

 

Lynnbrowns query is a fantastic question. The passage the verses comes from touches on many points regarding the "coming of the kingdom".
First off Jesus tells the pharisees the kingdom does not come with signs to be observed nor is it a place but it is in the midst of you, a state of being.

He tells his disciples they will go through an unsettled period and their patience will be tried but they should not settle for less than the glory of the kingdom, coming as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other. On one level this refers to the coming absence of Jesus on another it refers to "the long night of the soul", a period of final relinquishment.

You cannot tell by looking at a person who will endure, two men in the same bed. There will be cataclysm and at that time nothing that was will be of any value. Tune in, turn on, drop out. Do it now. There is no fortune to be had in this world,
where the body is, there the vultures will be gathered.

 

Waterbrother, you are not making any sense to me regarding "worshiping with falsehoods". The phrase doesn't make sense, somebody?

Yes, exactly as I said, a symbol chosen to represent an unknown variable.

So you offer no interpretation?

For the very reason I just demonstrated. We worship in spirit and in truth not in unreasoned conformity and half heartedness.

 

Why did Jesus say, or what did he mean by "I desire mercy not sacrifice?"

 

As you mention, Jesus is talking about people doing ordinary things, at time sex with the same sex was not considered ordinary. Even today, with its proliferation, it is not generally considered ordinary.

Also as you have said, one should take into account the context and the context is the nature of the last days, Jesus is not commenting on the sins that anyone is committing but only that God’s judgment is selective to the point that two people can be standing or laying next to each other and one can be taken and the other left.

So, it would seem that this scripture tells us nothing about sex but informs us about God’s ability to be selective during the last days and thus the last days will not be something like a nuclear holocaust that would take the innocent with the guilty. Not to say that there still couldn’t be a nuclear holocaust but that it would be man’s folly not God’s justice.

 

I have heard so many times that people feel that in order for us to have peace there has to be war! I never really got this!

 

Already did, but thanks for coming out.

 

Yes. The "man" refered to in Genesis 1 is humanity specifically, and then the gender specific male and female comes afterwards in the explanation. One thing you must remember when reading Genesis 1 is that it appears to be a poem, possibly liturgical. I would not stress about trying to reconcile the natural world we observe with the Creation story. This is a theological statement about God's Creation, not a step-by-step scientific handbook.

If God did create by 6-day creation, and it was evident in the world as some Young Earth Creationists claim, then faith would be reduced to a simple science you could prove and disprove. If God was obvious, we would not be free.

Ummm, no.

In Genesis 1, Man is saved for the final act of Creation. Mankind turns Creation from simply "good" to "very good". In Genesis 2, after the form of the world, Man is God's first creation. Before all plants and other living things, in a way, Adam are the first born living thing. (A nice little prefiguation of Christ there, the new Adam).God creating the animals seems to be an attempt to make Adam a partner, but finally God creates one out of Adam (an incredibly intimate bond husbands and wives have).

Um, again no. Look at the order of the creation events. There are set up differently, the order is different, God's personality is even different. In Genesis 1, God is this mighty transcendent being that creates simply by speaking. In the second, God uses his hands to form from the dust of the earth. God is personal and immanent. These two stories reveal important theological points about God that were radical at the time of their writing. The cultures that surrounded the Hebrews had similar Creation events, but the theologies were radically different (humans were created from the drops of blood of a slain evil god).



Sorry for stating things so bluntly.

 

Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3:3
And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
3:4
And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

Leviticus (At this point the alter that God had instructed Moses to build was completed and set on fire)

9:2
And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the LORD.

9:23
And Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle of the congregation, and came out, and blessed the people: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people.
9:24
And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the alter the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw they shouted, and fell on their faces.

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It becomes apparent (there are many other verses to back this up) that when the LORD appears before people, it is either in the form of smoke (as in the above verses), or in the form of a cloud or fog (Moses freeing the slaves was guided by a fog or cloud which he felt was an angel). Moses had made the anointing oil (Exodus 30:22/23) and was burning incense in the tabernacle tent style thing. The LORD appeared before him in the pillar of smoke. He is then instructed by God to build an alter, and then burn it with the help of Aaron and his songs, also surround by people, as Moses was instructed to share his message and anointing oil/incense with others.

A strange fire then comes "out from" the LORD (the smoke from the burning alter) and kills two of Aarons sons.

Leviticus 10
1And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.

2And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

3Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

4And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.

5So they went near, and carried them in their coats out of the camp; as Moses had said.

6And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

7And ye shall not go out from the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: for the anointing oil of the LORD is upon you. And they did according to the word of Moses.

8And the LORD spake unto Aaron, saying,

9Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

10And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

11And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses.

12And Moses spake unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons that were left, Take the meat offering that remaineth of the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and eat it without leaven beside the altar: for it is most holy:

13And ye shall eat it in the holy place, because it is thy due, and thy sons' due, of the sacrifices of the LORD made by fire: for so I am commanded.

14And the wave breast and heave shoulder shall ye eat in a clean place; thou, and thy sons, and thy daughters with thee: for they be thy due, and thy sons' due, which are given out of the sacrifices of peace offerings of the children of Israel.

15The heave shoulder and the wave breast shall they bring with the offerings made by fire of the fat, to wave it for a wave offering before the LORD; and it shall be thine, and thy sons' with thee, by a statute for ever; as the LORD hath commanded.

16And Moses diligently sought the goat of the sin offering, and, behold, it was burnt: and he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the sons of Aaron which were left alive, saying,

17Wherefore have ye not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God hath given it you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD?

18Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy place: ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.

19And Aaron said unto Moses, Behold, this day have they offered their sin offering and their burnt offering before the LORD; and such things have befallen me: and if I had eaten the sin offering to day, should it have been accepted in the sight of the LORD?

20And when Moses heard that, he was content.

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I think what has happened here is that Aaron's two sons were burnt because they offered the LORD some of the burning sacrament which the LORD had clearly stated previously to Moses that it was (see Exodus 30:22/23 for ingredients) his holy sacrament he offered to them (people). The religious conclusion could be that they spited the LORD by offering him something as a sacrifice that the LORD had given to people to use in a holy way.

The logical conclusion would be that after placing the fat of the animal upon the burning alter the two boys went back to put fire in something, so that they could use it to burn their sacrament. They were covered in oil and there was fat on the alter, (fat is very flammable), so they probably caught fire for this reason.

Moses then tells the two men carrying their dead bodies out of the tabernacle:

6And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

He doesn't want them to go outside of the tabernacle (holy place) while they are still covered in the anointing oil as God has told him the oil is holy. He then says:

10And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

to further this point.

 

In the first creation story man is created in the image and likeness of god, male and female, man is both male and female, creative force. The direction to be fruitful and multiply is not about biological reproduction but the fruits of our own creations. Biological reproduction is a process of cellular division, not multiplication.

The second creation story is that of biological entanglement, we go from creative force to being made of substance, formed from dust but at the same time man has no equivalent in the animal kingdom, lonely for his true source, then begins the dream of separation.

A deep sleep feel over adam and in that dream emerges the patriarchal vision of a companionable world for man. A new type of man is created, wo-man, subservient, inferior. In this act ensues the struggle for power and property, this is at last bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh.
Important point. No where does it say that man woke up from his sleep.

The unraveling of this biological entanglement is one of the things Jesus was about, "call no man your father."

 

Okay I'll bite, why doesn't it make sense to you?

No, It isn't.

I thought that Jesus did just fine.

And how does that answer the question; If that is what he meant, why didn't Jesus just say faithfulness instead of truth?

 

Lunarverse: could smoke and oil be substances through which we see god?

 

Because worship is a measure of devotion. I can see where you could worship false gods, idolatry, but the statement "worship with falsehoods" is nonsense.

Let's take it before the congregation.

Like dejavu asked and I have asked you many times, where is your inspiration. Where is your light?

Why not. The word truth meaning faithfulness is consistent with the words, "in spirit". We don't worship "with things". Worship is a measure of devotion.

 

I think that they can potentially provide instance for apparition. I think that there are many things on earth that can bridge an individual with the voice of love that is omnipotent and omnipresent. I know from personal experience that there are substances that can provide the opportunity to hear the voice of god. That is, the voice of love.

Genesis 1:29-30 (King James Version)

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

 

This is interesting. Could you please provide a textual reference. Thank you.

 

Since worship is not a measure of devotion, then "worship with falsehoods" is not necessarily nonsense.

What congregation?

How is this in anyway related to my saying Jesus gave a fine answer to your question?

Why not? Because it would be confusing and Jesus was anything but confusing.

 

I am referring to the first two chapters of Genesis, Matt. 23:9, and our current judeo-christian cultural model, patriarchal lineage, mr. & mrs. male last name etc.

 

Evidently "not necessarily" is true because it fits somewhere in your model of the world.

The congregation of our brethren right here and now.

It doesn't, should it? Do you know what I said? Where is your light? Where is your inspiration?

The way you are interpreting it is confusing and it is along the lines of your idea of worship with falsehoods. You are presenting the word truth in this instance as though it meant the opposite of falsehood. I see congruity in the statement as a whole, with the word truth representing faithfulness. We must worship in spirit and truth, not with spirit and truth.