Oby!!!! Take down this health care site!!!

RIPTIDE59

Can I ask, in your privatised health care, who is accountable?

You have not mentioned how transplants are administered other than 'in the free market'.
Have you actually spoken about how your plan works in practice? Please do inform us all.

On the basis that we get what we pay for, how does your
idea work?

Could you just specify why 'private' healthcare is better - you know, when individual people are responsible for a persons health and well-being.

Say I needed a new liver, how would I get one under your system?

I'm actually not that interested in hearing about what you think about 'obamacare'

I will have further questions, I'm just after hearing about how things are under RIPTIDE59care.

 

If you have insurance you go and get in line/'on the donor list' depending on condition.

If you are with no insurance, Like me, You pay cash for whatever bill they send you, But you call them and tell them its BS and you pay 1/3 to 1/2 depending.

If you are rich, You can buy you're way to the top. I have no problem with that, That's a 'good rainy day fund' well spent. But when you are talking a lifelong drunk who was rich, The $$ don't matter no how. You will just waste a lot of $$ and a liver and delay the inevitable for short/minimal time.

In all, You really go on a 'list' for donors depending on condition. Money or not, You are not skipped and i had a major reconstructive surgery done and the bill was comparable.
I don't see how it can get any better, Too many people, America is over populated. The only way, Most will bitch and cry about, Is prisoners serving life with NO chance of seeing light or the death penalty, Using their donor parts and turn ol' sparky back on and run them ALL through like texas.

To each their own, But $$ really don't matter if you know what/where/who to see. They make it seem like it does, But IMO and what i have seen, Karmas a bitch and or they go back to the same thing. Small % listen and live a good life.

 

Dosnt change my question. Who decides who makes the tests and who approves of them when they are done.

 

EL Tuna

I'm talking about 'RIPTIDE59's' 'system'.

 

I see, Guess id like to see that to. No other 'system' will work than what we have. Unless you are going to get too picky or start auctioning off body parts.

 

You'd like to see what? RIPTIDE59 hasn't explained how it works in practice...or even in theory, for that matter.

 

His angle at a healthcare system.

 

And he is wrong to ignore you.


But since you asked I'll sum it up simply what Pre-Obamacare was like or at least how I experienced it.

So there are two main ways:

1. Through your employer, so you would give your health information to the company's HR department, and they'd hook you all up, have the healthcare company your employer has a deal with contact you, fax/call/email-attach/snail mail ALL the medical documents required.

Those documents usually being the entire medical history of yourself and your family and you're in the company healthcare plan as an employee.

^The above assuming you qualify for benefits or if benefits are even offered by your employer.

Problem with #

1: It worked out great decades ago when people had lifetime career jobs, and when the economy is good. But it gets bad if you get laid off, get sick and coverage gets dropped, or if premiums get raised on your employer and in turn the employer cuts salaries or shrinks the workforce.

Then...the person is on their own...and falls into this situation:

2: The individual has to find a private healthcare insurance firm, call them, ask for a health insurance plan and a quote. The company then sends an interviewer to your home or in some other way communicates with you and collects your family's medical history.

From the analysis of your medical records healthcare corporations assigned a risk value to EACH member of your family in terms of how you being covered by them would be a asset or a liability to that company's bottom-line. At this point when you hear back from them two things could happen:

A. They reject you, you had a medical history in which they found it too risky to take you on as a possible liability for coverage treatment. (This is the pre-existing conditions situation, and it's not even about price anymore they just say NO we will not cover you)

(Note: In addition keep in mind that when a healthcare company does this, they are aware of PREVIOUS RIVAL healthcare companies who have offered coverage to you in the past, so if they see that their competition dropped John Doe, why would they want to pick up John Doe as a client when their competition obviously thinks it's bad for their bottom-line?)


B. They accept you, and offer you a coverage plan. But even then maybe the Dr. you want isn't in their coverage network, or the specific medical treatment or therapy you're seeking isn't covered. Or in some States where it was illegal to NOT offer someone a healthcare plan, they'd raise the price to an arbitrary high level in premiums and deductible rates that the company KNOWS you can't afford so YOU are the one that turns THEM DOWN. (legal technicality in which they can tell the courts, we didn't deny anybody coverage, they declined what we offered them at the price we set)

In addition, if you fell sick while you were covered (meaning the health insurance firm lost out on their bet they'd profit off you because they bet you'd stay healthy), they could raise your premiums and deductibles at their leisure, kinda like how cell phone administration fees keep arbitrarily rising at the company's whim. When you can't afford it, you cancel the plan, OR do what many families did and took out a 2nd mortgage and kept trying to fund their loved one's healthcare costs...resulting in an unstable financial household and one less stable financial family in the USA.

(Sidenote: Now Libertarians and Republicans seem to draw the line here, and say that they CHOSE to take that 2nd mortgage out to keep funding a healthcare bill, and they should suffer the consequences that choice, rather than the alternative which is to either find a charity in time to help them or stop their loved one's treatment)


---

The above scenarios are why I feel healthcare is an exception to ANYTHING else one attempts to buy in a capitalist system.

It's one of the only products that judged you as you attempted to buy it, dropped you like a bad relationship partner as if it had a mind of its own, and moved the goal posts of it's price tag.

Food, cars, toys, furniture, TV, and even college tuition are all FIXED prices at a given moment in time, and are BLACK/WHITE about whether you can afford it or not.

I reject any counter-argument that used the premise that the individual really had the power to afford healthcare if they cut back in other areas and use the free market to negotiate prices down and solve these dynamics of both ACCESS AND PRICE for consumers.

---

That in a nutshell is what healthcare was like to get as an individual Pre-Obamacare.

And even Obamacare doesn't address all these issues, and it certainly doesn't address the issue of the Chargemasters in Hospitals. But that's a discussion for next time in the political arena, I don't think healthcare as an issue can be addressed again so soon....they gotta spend political capital on other issues.

 

Yes. Specifically transplants.

 

The fact that you wont let this transplant thing go makes me wonder....if you could completely control the system how would transplants be done by you?

 

All right odum , my "system" , if you have not caught on would be privaized insurance or privatized care. What part of privatization don't you understand? Sounds like a lot. Just so you don't feel ignored.

 

'Yes, Odon, this euro style of social service should be very appealing to the collectivist mentality or lack there of. What about death panels? I know you euros luv em , but we don't. Most recently oby's stooge denied a 12 yr old a lung. Big bitch session about that one. Too many questions , not enough answers. And that folks is why the bastard needs to be SHUT DOWN!!!!!!!'

(she wasn't 12 or we wouldn't have been talking about her)

I was persistent because I was interested in knowing how these so-called 'death panels' would be avoided. It seems he doesn't avoid them. Infact seems to add layers and layers of these 'death panels' instead.

'Edicts , superficial rules and regs. Hallmarks of the current regime , and others. Not the path to civil liberties or financial well being. Currently , only the Libertarian Party offers us an escape from the strangulation of a statist government.'

Reading monkjr's post - they not only have superficial rules and regulations - they can simply refuse to cover you.
Which for all the faults in our healthcare system simply doesn't happen.

I was wishing to know how to bypass the Lung Allocation System (LAS)
http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/resources/allocationcalculators.asp?index=86

'privaized insurance or privatized care' is about as helpful as a chocolate teapot - well, apart from letting me know he hasn't any better solutions.

 

It's no big surprise that free market alternatives go over like pharts in church in europe. After looking at their current state of affairs. I feel blessed that in spite of a euro in the White House we can still purchase in a Liberty based fashion. Sounds like a new language , eh odom?

 

I'd add 'presumed consent' and keep the system we already have.
I don't think we have age restrictions such as the case in the news...

6.1 Age
Legislation precludes disadvantaging any group on the grounds of age. However, in some instances, there are objective reasons why one age group should be prioritised over another for receipt of an organ. For example, organ failure can be associated with growth retardation, and this can be corrected by transplantation (although often requires subsequent treatment)
Once growth has ceased, it may not be possible to catch up, so growth failure may be a valid reason to prioritise those for a transplant who are still growing.
However, any preference to any group has to be proportionate and justified on clinical grounds.

http://www.odt.nhs.uk/pdf/introduction_to_selection_and_allocation_policies.pdf
http://bma.org.uk/working-for-change/improving-and-protecting-health/organ-donation

http://www.odt.nhs.uk/transplantation/policies/

http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/newsroom/statements_and_stances/statements/opt_in_or_out.asp

http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk/

 

Several observations:

Although numbers are down ; talking heads from the White House still refuse to release hard facts. They are truly embarrassed. Economical private policies do exist. Shop. Take tour time. A good broker found me a private policy being the equal of a bronze for $230/mo with a 5k deduct. Not bad. barry offers $384/mo with 50/50 deduct. OK fine. No small wonder it's "mandatory". How could it be otherwise sold?

Scammers and hackers get into this site quicker than gubmint lackies and potential suckers. Financial info , ss #'s , addresses . Phishing schemes galore. Lax security. DO NOT enroll. Your security is at risk. We have at least until 12-15. Last week , resondants were already asked to change p'words. A virtual buffet for hackers.

 

Since when is Kenya part of Europe? jk of course. On a more serious (but very obvious) note: having socialistic ideas (or being accused of having them) does not make someone 'a euro'. Or is there some other reason you chronically call him like that...

 

barry is trying to model our economy after yours. ie. "the keynesian kenyan". Don't feel bad , asmodean , if things keep going this way we'll all be in the same sinking boat.

 

Why would I feel bad?

 

dude you have got to lay off the rush limbaugh, it's bad for your health.