Obama, the agent of transformation in an age of revolution

A Candidates lifetime affiliation with a church is one of the revealing facts about that persons worldview. It is hard to spin church affiliation.

During the recent visit of Pope Benedict. it was noted that Nanci Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and Rudy Guiliani presented themselves for communion despite the Churches policy of refusing communion to politicians who support reproductive rights.

These politicians identify with the Church yet at the same time take a position seperate and challenge specific church teaching. This shows a little "texture" of the person.

JFK had to distance himself from his Church prior to his election.

It is certainly a better window into a persons soul than: "hope and change"

Everyone here developed an idea about candidate Romeny through his Mormon Church, and why not.

Senator Obama did not move to Washington when elected to the Senate, he remained in Chicago and remained with Trinity Church. I am curious if he held any positions with Trinity Church Parish? It is obviously an important part of his life.

 

I'll vote for the first person that stands up and says their church affiliation is no one's business but their own.

All those that try to sell themselves by their Sunday attendance, are suspect to me.

Not important enough for him to stand by his minister when the going got rough.

Exactly my point almost as though they will use whatever church for marketing value. But our constitution states they don't have to take a religious test, so why do they continue to try and use the church to their benefit?

I would have much more confidence in a candidate that said it's none of your business. That person I could respect.

 

I hate to disillusion you, if that is possible, but this country has been a plutocracy since the day it came into existence. Think about who the founding fathers were.

Do you really think integrity can be divided between a lot, some, a little, etc.? You are either honest or you aren't. People aren't a little honest. Think about the statement, " he is an honest man." How about, "he is an honest man a little bit." Ha. Ha. Ha.

Not voting for Obama is not voting for Obama. That's it. If you will check you will note that I do not vote for any of them. That way I maintain my integrity politically. Diogenes hasn't found me yet!!! Ha. Ha. Ha.

 

Interesting definition, but I don't see it so black and white. Being human is being confronted with one's own hypocrisy, we are constantly forced to choose between the lesser of the evils, and that's assuming we have all the facts straight, which we don't. All we can do is that which our conscience dictates.

I can respect that, but as disillusioned as I might seem, I feel a strong sense of responsibility to get the republicans out of the white house, and out of government as much as possible. Not that I'm expecting some utopia to emerge, it's unattainable, short of overthrowing the government. Furthermore, we've brought this upon ourselves, by living beyond our means, and exploiting other countries to that end. We are part of it, whether or not we want to accept it.

 

i agree about getting the Republicans out. I mean, yeah, the Democrats have their own problems and corruptions too but... we've GOT to get the Republicans out if we ever want to be free.

 

HJY It's gonna take alot more reading before I can even begin to form an opinion about Obama, Daley and Revco. Takes alot of picking through and checking sources to figure out where any body really stands, even then you still don't know for sure unless you were there to see it go down...but the internet sure does make it alot easier than it used to be. Lots to read. Gimme another week or two and I'll get back to you.

Here is one article i found interesting but it is favorable so you may not dig it...

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/Articles/bobamasunlikelypoliticaledu.html

 

This is true, I applaud anyone who takes the time to do their homework by looking at independent sources of information on the internet or elsewhere, now that main stream media has become so biased, you almost can't call it journalism anymore.

If you dig deep enough, chances are you're gonna find dirt. The way the system is rigged, I don't think it's possible for anyone to have a shot at a presidential nomination without serving some corporate and political interests that might be considered questionable. Until the system changes, the best these guys can do is minimize the harm they do to others in the process.

 

Thanks for the link BTW, very inspiring, I liked this quote:

"Barack is not a politician first and foremost. He's a community activist exploring the viability of politics to make change."

The author describes Obama as a "community organiser." This big-ass community known as America could sure use some organization right about now, and we can start by making it more of a community, instead of the plutocracy it's become.

 

I feel a strong sense of responsibility to get the republicans out of the white house, and out of government as much as possible. Not that I'm expecting some utopia to emerge, it's unattainable, short of overthrowing the government. Furthermore, we've brought this upon ourselves, by living beyond our means, and exploiting other countries to that end. We are part of it, whether or not we want to accept it.


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[/QUOTE]I don't know why you think democrats are different from republicans. Check the farm bill going through Congress.

I don't know what "it" is, the it to which you refer, but I sure as hell ain't part of it if you mean the government.

Up the Revolution

 

Who said anything about democrats?

My only concern at this point is a changing of the guard from the way things are, an absurd trend toward reverse robin hood economics, where corruption is rewarded, while honesty doesn't go unpunished.

Maybe democrats aren't much better, and I can appreciate they're all plutocrats anyway, but I'm willing to take my chances on a vote against more-of-the-same-mcain. Again, I'm not looking for utopia here, just something not quite so bad.

I used to think that way. Not any more.

The government is a reflection of our culture, our collective way of life, and it's a representation of who we are, what we value, and what we believe in. Whether you go online, work at a job, or buy consumer goods, you are entrenched in the system, of which the government is part. You can put your head in the sand and deny it, move into a cave somewhere or expatriate, or you can accept responsibility, and do what you can to change things for the better.

When I find a way to comfortably live off the grid, self-sufficiently with no currency and no ties to the American machinery of any kind, sign me up, I'll gladly thumb my nose at the government, and relinquish all sense of responsibility for the monstor I helped create, but not until then. 'course by then you'll never know it, 'cause I won't have access to this here forum...

 

Mellow Yellow. You need to go to Walden Pond and meditate a bit more. Read what you write. I am not part of any system. You must not know what an anarchist believes. What is that for which I am to accept responsibility? Not "the system!" Not "the government!" I may be a captive of these things, but certainly not a creator of them. I think you aren't a creator either. Then, I may be wrong. You do vote.

All along I assumed Obama was a democrat politician and that democrats ran the Congress. I certainly see no change there. Nor do I see Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama as changes of any import. Wait til one of them wins. Then you will probably see. HJY

P.S. Have a good life.

 

You're right, I do need to meditate more, meditation does a soul good.

No, we aren't necessarily "creators", that's a bit strong, but we are captives, and that's my point. We can do the Buddhist thing and detach ourselves from it, but ultimately we pay for the sins of our political leaders, so it behooves us to choose those leaders.

I think that's your rub, you see it as all or nothing, something that can't be changed, and maybe it can't, but I'm not gonna sit around and meditate while our civil rights are taken away, and our economy becomes a war machine.

The democrats are a discgrace in congress, I'm aware of that. Let's just give bush and co. a blank check, why don't we? Furthermore, I'm also aware of the state of our agriculture, it's terrible. And don't get me going about NAFTA, which the clinton administration orchestrated.

However, since the republicans have been at the helm, I've seen civil liberties eroded in the name of "security" (I put that in quotes because we're a good deal less secure than we were when bush took office). I've seen a war based on lies whose sole purpose is to bilk the tax payers of billions of dollars, while the coffers are raided by corrupt military contractors. I've seen the majority of Americans lose ground financially, as the corporations and the wealthy elite enjoy record profits and tax breaks, meanwhile the infrastructure of social services and public resources is collapsing.

I hope that when the system is hollowed out, our civil liberties are gone, and the chinese own our asses that we still have an opportunity to meditate.

Be well.

 

BTW, I am familiar with anarchism, the idea that in a utopian society we can all do our thing and get along, and no one needs more power, influence or wealth than anyone else. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that I could get along well in such a culture. Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible, based on what on what I've seen. Mankind is incapable, because there's always some self-serving opportunists out there who will expoit others, it's a primitive instinct that can only be suppressed by the conscience.

I hope I'm wrong...

 

The best thing the voters/citizens of this country can do is vote their conscience, and then hold those elected accountable. They should realize that election doesn't give them a pass, they will be held accountable. It's not a matter of party, make them live up to their promises or seek employment else where. Experience....what experience for most of them, the experience of caving and voting for something they promised not to, while receiving funds from lobbyists? Vote for Obama but don't give him a pass when he doesn't live up to expectations. And just because an administration benefits from an irrational exhuberant bubble don't give them a pass, while they allowed the bubble to expand and burst. No politician should ever feel safe.

 

how much money does it cost to become president these days?

who trusts anyone who can raise that much money?

 

Trust no one, hold all accountable. Then who do the lobbyists sell their spiels to? Then they would have no advantage. That's how our founders sought to protect our constitutional rights.

 

how do you hold them accountable?

 

When the time comes, you vote out all incumbents. You refuse to vote for anyone already purchased by lobbyists. It's easy. Don't buy into experence buys influence for your community...it doesn't. They've sold us out on everything and they laugh and have lunch on it, while we work at 2-3 jobs, and they don't seem to care how much gas goes up or the price of milk or bread. Their portfolios go up, ours decline, while they tell us unification is bad, but they all have sold out to same buyer They all work for a limited amount of corporations. Time to hold them to the same standard.

Why is worker unification bad but coporate consolidation is grand? Wake up!

 

Experience is bullshit! Experience at screwing us, that's what "experience" means to me.

Score one for the bush team though, I must applaud the man for opposing farm subsidies that benefit the huge corporate farmers, giving them even more of an edge over the little guys who need it most. While we're at it, let's oppose the defense contractor subsidies, shall we?

I guess it's a matter of priority. Take my stuff away, but don't take my freedoms.

Don't vote if you don't want to, that's your deal. I just hope we don't see the day where the US is hosting the Olympics, and we're being oppressed, beaten, and slaughtered in droves for protesting, like our brothers and sisters in Tibet, all because McCain got the job...

 

Farm subsidies, better really do your homework. Biish did what to limit them? Bush and energy buddies are making it big time, while we watch our fuel and food prices rise. Ethanol... it's a myth, it's always been a myth and select farmers have benefitted for years. Ethanol is not an answer, it's a pay off.