Obama laughs about drone killings

Discussion in 'America Attacks!' started by Dude111, May 26, 2012.

  1. unedited

    unedited Member

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    What a failure to engage with my points... You're not even trying. I'm not generalising about Islam - in fact I'm saying we need to defend the vast majority of Muslims - who are decent, secular and tolerant of others - from the small but vicious intolerant minority who use brutality and violence to impose their own narrow version of Islam, because it gives them an animalistic sense of power.

    There's plenty of psycho-pseudo-Christian based gangs employing brutal violence in central Africa - I'd predator-drone-bomb the sh*t out of them as well. Religion is not an issue. Attitude is.

    I'm just saying we need to defend the moderate and peaceful majority by employing overwhelming force against the intolerant and violent minority.

    But you're clearly not interested in a genuine discussion, you're just trolling. It's not even very subtle.

    As such, it's not worth my time. Well done, debate over *slow hand claps* .

    :|
     
  2. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

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    Uhh I know what you're saying. I'm saying we kill may civilians in the meantime (1 million in Iraq alone) and I would contest that this violence, causes more radicalization against us, and that's pretty obvious if you look at how Al Qaeda has now taken over in place where we occupied (Iraq Libya etc.)
    Actually, I've been having a discussion; you're just a regular brainwashed American who justifies force by painting the enemy with a broad brush. But you don't even bring up the violations of our Constitution that has resulted on the alleged "war on terror" and that's why this thought process is worriesome. I'm all for debating and conversing but it is emotionally draining to converse with people so self indulgent, that governments get a pass to force their violent will on a minority (not always violent ie drugs users, activists etc.) the government is actually target citizens who excersize free speech as terrorists today. The reason why I don't feel compelled to "prove" your wrong, is because I know it with ever inch of my heart and mind.

    Violence is an obsolete evil of mankind. People like you believe that there's a "need" for this violence, because you want this violence. For so-called Security, comfort, to maintain order. But are we maintaining order? As Kokesh said there is a desperation among people which we're not thinking of our future, and being a capable human being, we're not thinking about what we can get from our work ethic; The American dream has been killed by the alleged "NWO," pushed by George HW Bush, George W and, Obama, under the guise of fighting terrorism, they're taking away the Constitution. And the fact you're totally unaware and apathetic shows me that you trust the government unconditionally; that a few muslim extremist are more scarey to you than the most elite and corrupt industries on this planet, who only wish to control you.
     
  3. unedited

    unedited Member

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    Dude. I'm not even American. :p

    *gets sucked in*

    But I do think it's naive to renounce violence, when there are violent people in the world who don't share your values.

    I'm left wondering whether you'd stand by and watch a woman getting raped because to physically intervene would be wrong? It's a harsh question, but it's a central problem with your moral 'values' - how do you prevent violence, if not through the application of force?

    I just think if IF you have to use force in order to protect the innocent and vulnerable from violence, then do so with overwhelming kick-ass-ness.

    The finer points of whether governments need to be more accountable, well we might have some common grounds. But that's a wholly different argument.
     
  4. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

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    You slightly misunderstood. If I caught a guy raping a girl; I excersize my 2nd amendment rights and I'll def give him a warning shot, or maybe even a fatal shot if it permitted. But I don't believe in using violence against non violence as our government does. And I think if the government backed off a little, people would be more self reliant. But, you're right. It does take an advancing of the mind for people to realize this is the right way to go.
     
  5. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

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    My bad about being rude too. I just don't think Obama's use of Drones was appropriate. I'd like Drones a lot more if citizens could hold them as an arm lol. Fair's fair!

    Where are you from?
     
  6. unedited

    unedited Member

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    lol no worries - I can be a bit provocative myself (ok I can be rude lol). And I think looking at it, we're pretty much on the same page just reading different paragraphs (although I think we disagree about political institutions. I'm ok with a large, powerful, well-funded state as long as it's accountable and truly democratic).

    But I totally agree that our governments are not behaving as democratic institutions of the people - they're instruments of the corporations and there are times when the corporate interests involve using military force inappropriately.

    But for me, that doesn't mean that ALL military intervention is wrong. Libya's a good recent example. That was led by Brits and French (working together - Admiral Lord Nelson would be renouncing his medals at that one lmfao) and the Libyan people thanked us for it.

    It's a little remembered fact that Tony Bliar's decision to back the Iraq invasion was influenced by howthe British military had succesfully intervened in Sierra Leone - and when I say succesful, the Sierra Leonians are still grateful - not in a submissive colonial bs way - but in a nation of decent people who got the help they needed to get rid of some nasty mofos who were trying to impose a badass gangster regime on them.

    We still have troops there now in a training capacity, and when it was suggested they were withdrawn the Sierra Leone government asked that they stay. And it's not just the government - the people want them to stay as well.

    But at the time of the civil war, our troops were fully engaged in the fighting.

    ...But then we have Iraq - and while the general population were generally ok with us getting rid of Saddam, they were pretty pissed with what happened afterwards. And I can totally understand. FUCKING HALIBURTON. And how many of the top dogs in the Bush administration were Haliburton's bitches??! ALL OF THEM.

    Yeah. There are times when our governments, or our states, have issues with motive. Then it gets tricky.

    But if a kid whose father was a terrorist gets drone-bombed, I'm mostly going to blame the father.

    Makes me think of a recent case in the UK of a young lad who was shot by the police - there was an undercover operation against a violent gang in London, the police were following this lad because they thoght he was carrying guns for the gang, they stopped the cab he was in, they shot him. It was claimed by the police officers that they'd seen him with a gun in his hand. But no gun was found.

    There were riots in London over it.

    And the police were wrong. They shouldn't have shot him. He wasn't carrying a gun. BUT (and I'd be slaughtered for saying this to a lot of people in the UK) the lad had been associating with people who WERE violent, who DID deal drugs, who DEFINITELY used guns.

    The police were wrong, but the kid was putting himself in a position where he was in danger of the police getting it wrong like that. I'm NOT saying he asked for it, but I AM saying his own actions led to him being in greater danger than he would otherwise have been, and as such my sympathy for him is diminished. Not entirely gone, but tempered.

    --------------

    Aaaanyway. I distracted myself! Ok. So, I worry about expecting people to be self-reliant. That's ok as long as you can tell me how we defend ourselves from larger, better armed groups of people who want to make me a slave (ie corporations),

    And yeah, we need a predator drone per person, controlled via wifi (seriously, i can see the next world war being waged this way - swarms of drones each flown by an interneted citizen).

    And I'm from the UK. But I want to live in California. :)
     
  7. StpLSD25

    StpLSD25 Senior Member

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    How do you mean "truly democratic"? As in you vote for whatever law, like the people act as congress?
    Well yeah. There are some cases where America was asked to come in. I don't think every intervention is wrong, but being that I believe in my countries Constitution, I'm not really okay with going after dictators in these countries that aren't a direct threat to us. But I do understand it was a humanitarian thing. The other thing that still really got me about Libya though is they hung an Al Qaeda flag from their capitol after all of that.
    Haha! Yeah! Actually Obama too has hired Halliburton. They are intriquely involved in the Military-industrial complex that controls this country.
    Well I believe non violent, victimless crimes are not really crimes. If someone decides to ingest Marijuana or even opium; that individual should be able to find out the risks and benefits and yes, even purchase the drug legally. It would still be illegal to steal, kill or impose your will on someone, but people would be liable for what they put in their body.

    I think as a result we'd see less hard drug users,a lot less gang violence and people would be aware of what they were ingesting. Rather than smoking weed laced with PCP or something crazy like that. I think most of America's problem with drugs is prohibition related and not use related.

    Lol! Well in America we have the Right to bear arms. I support people excersizing this right. I know guns are highly illegal in the UK- but here in the US, some citizens will walk with guns in their holsters. It's not because there's constant shootings or anything, quite the contrary. Most gun owners are responsible and don't intend any harm. It is the criminals stashing guns in their coat who intend to do harm!

    And that's awesome man! I hope you do! It'll be a culture shock, but there's some good people here in the US
     
  8. Paulwenz

    Paulwenz Banned

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    Drone hits are immoral!
    Just send Obama to kill himself.
     
  9. Paulwenz

    Paulwenz Banned

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    from Australia.

    We have dumb feck kids in our rural village who can't get work at the supermarket so they join the army.
    There only skill is they can use an X-box, then they joke about being trained to pilot drones, sad when it is a stupid teenager girl!
     
  10. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

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  11. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

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    So, 14 months later, where is this explosion?
     
  12. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

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    maybe he was right and got taken out in the explosion?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. unedited

    unedited Member

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    Hey, thanks for the welcome btw - sorry can't reply with a pm but cheers dude.

    Not as stupid as you think man, have you seen the controllers they use to fly the drones? They're generic Xbox pads. Seriously. moral issues aside, I always find that really funny. :D
     
  14. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    Yup, smart design and engineering on the part of the designers of the drones control system. You have an entire generation of people at the age of enrollment who have most likely spent the previous decade using such controllers. The reduction in the learning curve must be tremendous.
    Good thinking and kudos to the designers.:2thumbsup:
     
  15. Paulwenz

    Paulwenz Banned

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    Rural kids often come from church families and having spoken to some of these kids who bragged to me about their working flying drones i was a little shocked at the lack of insight into the ethics.
    No conflict was seen with being religious but that's almost a pet hate of mine.
     
  16. unedited

    unedited Member

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    I guess if you're not used to thinking too deeply about stuff, then it's easy just to take pleasure in doing your job well and not considering the implications. Maybe later they'll grow up a bit and have some time for self-reflection.

    Hope so. Although religion doesn't always encourage that.
     
  17. Voyage

    Voyage Noam Sayin

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  18. Paulwenz

    Paulwenz Banned

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    I just feel puzzled that some of these kids go to church and see no connection with the carnage?

    Then there was an interesting moment when a neighbor came to tea the other night , she is leaving the area, now separated from husband who has remarried..
    Bible bashing family , husband army person, seems he bashed her for all their marriage , the son is a pilot now going to Afghanistan on some "secret mission" and the penny dropped that she might lose her son .
    It was sad because she was proud of his achievements but realised he could die and it might all be a tragic waste.
    However no moral or ethical comment.

    What i felt sad about was the culture of dishonesty in that family and that the military had been a kind of poison to their lives.
     
  19. Duck

    Duck quack. Lifetime Supporter

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    I disagree, my earlier self. The shadow war is one of the scariest happenings of the current century; and the scariest foreshadowing.
     
  20. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

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    anyone interested in learning more about the american drone strikes/secret wars should read 'Dirty Wars' by Jeremy Scahill (or watch the documentary by the same name if you don't have the time to read a gigantic book). He is a great journalist, and the book was very, very informative and eye opening.
     

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