NYC hospitals ban formula and bottles

The last quote wasn't mine, so someone else needs to get over themselves.

I'm sorry I offended you, but it seems from the beginning you were trying to justify what you maybe feel is wrong.

BTW, I do not judge women who want to breastfeed but were misinformed or unsupported, I know how important support is to breastfeeding and how hard it can be to do without support (though it obviously can be done). It is unfortunate it happens, and is something we need to get over. Removing formula from women at such an important time in developing a nursing relationship is a great first step.

 

Actually it was look at the thread. I didn't change a thing.

 

No. I meant the last qoute which was bolded, I didn't put the source for it. I thought you took that one as a personal insult based on the fact it was bolded. I totally claim ownership of the post!

 

um.. ya,

I have lots of friends who don't breastfeed. They made their choice, so they can deal with the result of that choice. Most of them were uninformed, or misinformed, and when they ask me questions about breastfeeding I make sure they get the right information.

Do I think women should breastfeed? YES. Do I judge women who do not? NO. That being said, I know plenty of women who find breastfeeding to be too painful, too demanding. Do I think they should just stick with it? Yes... I am disappointed, but no, I don't judge them as mothers.

I think breastfeeding should be expected. I don't understand why a mother wouldn't want to do what is best for their son. But just because I don't understand doesn't mean I am judging them.

 

I promised myself I wouldn't read this thread anymore because it is so biased, but man this really irks me....I love how supportive a mother can be by saying someone is latching on to an excuse....breastfeed and you are high and mighty, eh? I consider myself lucky to have been able to breastfeed and stick to it, but never would feel better than someone because of it. We are all mothers and need to support other's decisions.

Wow, I am very impressed that we are at 75%, I thought it was much lower. Thanks for that figure!

It really seems like the personal stories we have here where mothers were pressured to breastfeed had nothing at all to do with those free samples...it was poor hospital support and staff. I got samples both times but was asked if I would breastfeed or wanted bottles. I told them no bottles at all, and my wishes were respected. I would have freaked (then probably sued) if the nurses had given my baby formula without my permission!! My samples were in the bags I had when I came home or if I was lucky...my OB had some too. Someone mentioned giving a baby formula at 1 hour old??? What did free samples have to do with that? The nurse was the one that put things into your daughters mind (about low blood sugar) and gave it to the baby. Both hospitals I delivered at supported breastfeeding. However, I was pressured by a nurse to have an epidural during my first labor. It all boiled down to not having support. Do I think epidurals should be banned?? HELL NO! I'm pretty sure they are not great for your baby (I've heard it could cause fevers), but if the mother chooses to use one...it is her decision. Because I had a bad experience with a bad nurse and no support (MY FAULT for not hiring a doula), I ended up with two c-sections, so it changed my life and my body. I really think the key here is EDUCATION...just like someone mentioned. Instead of educating the mothers that are not in a position to make decisions themselves, we are telling them what to do. That is great if we get the mother to breastfeed but what happens when the next important decision comes up for that child. And I believe the education needs to be to both the parents and the health care professionals. Seems to me that if those nurses were educated and knew the benefits of breastfeeding, less mothers would have been pressured into using formula.

Ok, i'll try to stay out of this thread again LOL. But my curiosity is getting the best of me (seems like we have an awful lot of formula feeders here) so I'm starting a poll. Please humor me!

 

look, my point was that it is easy to not even attempt breastfeeding because you plan to go back to work. Its easy to not even try pumping, to tell youself that it is hard without even really trying.

But, sure thing... I am a horrible person for thinking that mothers should breastfeed. I am a horriable for thinking that some women do look for any excuse to get out of breastfeeding, be it "pumping is hard" or "free samples" or whatever.

But blame me. Please... go ahead and take your frustrations out on me.

I support all sorts of mothers. Do I think they should breastfeed, yes. But do I support them even if they don't? Yes.

 

Yes, you are right...it is all excuses and after this one there will be another. People always want to blame others (formula companies). Too bad they can't ban mothers from working...I think everyone would agree that it is best for children and would help support breastfeeding LOL.

 

or maybe we could offer maternity & paternity leave the way countries like sweden do.

 

I personally agree with Advaya. It's not that I think MY opinion on this is higher than anyone elses, but to look at the facts and you'll see, breastfeeding is better.

And while it will never happen "because it entrenches on a woman's rights" babies should be allowed their birthright. And that is BREASTMILK.

Personally, if all mommas that could breastfeed WOULD breastfeed, I wouldn't feel so bad about having to bottlefeed my own! And even then, I'd probably have more of a chance of finding a wet-nurse.

 

I always wonder why, in so many undeveloped nations where women are literally near-starving, the vast majority are able to breastfeed, yet the vast majority in developed countries are "unable" to. The "What about women who can't?" argument is so over-played. The truth is, the N. American women who physically, truly, cannot breastfeed are very, very few.
N. American women have more food, maybe too much food, N. American women have more leisure, they have running water in their homes, and stoves, and refridgerators, and they're not out gathering firewood, and fetching water, or farming, or moving their entire houusehold every few weeks so their herd of cattle or goats can find better grazing.

Once upon a time nursing wasn't hard. Once upon a time it was considered NORMAL. Once upon a time, putting your new baby to your breast and nursing was as natural as breathing, because every woman you knew that had children had done it before you, and you watched and learned long before your own baby was born. Once upon a time, you could ask your mother, or your sister, or your granny or auntie for advice, because they had done it too, and got through it.

I'm not even going to talk about those women who truly cannot breastfeed, because they don't need excuses as to why they can't. They know their reasons are valid and real. They went throught the heartbreak of not being able to nurse, after trying hard and long.

The real problems in N. America with regards to breastfeeding are not that so many women can't, it's that so many women don't know how. There's a big difference. Women who breastfeed are often in the minority; in their communities, in their circle of friends, in their own families. Many women who attempt breastfeeding are often the first in generations of women in their families who do. They have no one to call and ask for help when baby won't stop crying at 3 am, or when baby seems to be nursing non-stop, or when nipples become sore and cracked. No one who can give better advice than "Just give him a bottle so you can rest."

We also tend to look at breastfeding from a formula-feeding point of view, and compare the the breastfeed baby to a formula fed one. The breastfed baby who nurses every 2 hours instead of every 4. The breastfed baby who poops 6 times a day instead of once, or poops every 5 days instead of daily. The breastfed baby whose intake you can't measure by ounces. The breastfed baby whose weight gain is not acccurately measured by formula company growth charts. The breastfed baby who wakes up twice a night to nurse, instead of sleeping through at 6 weeks.
Then, for some reason, the bottle fed baby who is drinking 32 ounces a day at 2 months is a source of pride; "Look how much he drinks a day! Already up to eight ounces a feed!" but the breasfed baby who nurses non-stop? There must be a problem with Mom's milk supply!
We have forgotten how to monitor a baby's well-being without charts and measurements.

And, let's face it, we live in a culture of Detachment Parenting. Babies are not supposed to interfere with our daily lives or our solid eight hours of sleep at night. Take a look at our average baby store, and see all the furniture and equipment and gadgets designed to allow us to NOT have to hold our babies. Cribs, strollers, bouncy seats, electric swings, bottle props, pacifiers, teddy bears that sing lullabyes and mobiles that light up. Monitors that allow us to leave our infants alone in another room, behind closed doors. We even have cribs that will rock the baby back to sleep so we don't have to! WTF? No wonder when our breastfed baby demands to be held and nursed so often we freak out and think there's something wrong. A breastfed baby demands you stop what you're doing and attend to him, and that's not what this culture is about.

 

One last thing, because most of this debate is about an issue that does not even exists;


NYC and NYC hospitals are not banning formula and bottles. It is silly to keep saying "the ban on formula is blah blah blah..." because it doesn't even exist. It was an inflammatory headline taken out of context and meant to get women angry, and it has obviously worked.

There is no ban on formula and bottles. To quote the article;

See? Your right to formula feed has not been infringed at all. You won't get arrested and charged with a felony or misdemeanor if you whip out a bottle of Enfamil. Child Protective Services will not take your baby away if you ask for formula. THERE IS NO BAN ON FORMULA!

You know who else is really angry about this? The formula companies.:H
Do you really think they give away all those promotional materials just to be nice? Because they are advocates for women's rights to choose how to feed their infants?
No. It's because of the fact that every year in the US over 4,000,000 babies are born, and that, to the formula companies, is over 4,000,000 potential customers who depend on their product, and they want to be the formula brand of choice. They know that the formula your hospital "endorses" (by being the one that your hospital gives away) will be the brand you are most likely to choose.

 

:applause: This bears repeating...

 

how bout again, just for good measure
very well said, brighid

 

I mentioned this a page or two back...no one responded....

 

First of let me just say that I am not against breast feeding I am just not willing to judge a person passed on that decision and I do believe that free samples can be beneficial to a lot of people. My sister for one tried to breast feed both of her girls she was able to breast feed the first one for 3 months with her crying all the time and always fussy because my sister wasn't producing enough milk, she again tried with her second with the same problem this time she only breast fed for a month because it made her sick how the baby was so upset all the time and that her body could just not produce enough. The samples she got in the hospital where great for her because they needed them.

I think there is a huge difference here and they can't even be compared. Even though breast milk is by far the best thing for a baby some women cant nurse for many different reasons and even though formula is only a substitute it does provide nutrition and the basic things that babies need to grow and be health. Where as soda is just liquid sugar and provides no amount of nutrients at all. I don't care if they take soda out of public schools I didn't even know that they had them now. When I was in school there where no soda machines. In school all we got to drink was milk or water and maybe juice if my mom packed my lunch for the day . So I really don't see how the two can be compared.

 

The thing is, they aren't banning formula altogether. And as a formula-feeding mother, I'm glad they didn't give me formula samples in the hospital. The samples can make or break a breastfeeding relationship.

Let me ask you this...HYPOTHETICALLY, if you knew that your sister's breastfeeding relationship and lack of milk was DUE to the formula samples, wouldn't you want them gone?

Formula is still there, and if the mother wants formula, she can have formula. Probably without any charge, even. But taking those samples away means that the mothers that CAN breastfeed and DO make enough milk will have a better start to a breastfeeding relationship that might not have happened otherwise. This isn't an assult on anyone's freedoms. The Bill of Rights doesn't guarantee us the right to free samples. This is just a way to help educate women and coax them towards a path that they might not have taken if there was a product being shoved in their faces as an "equal-to/more convenient".

 

Yes, this is 100% different. Advertising in schools is directed to children, who are not capable to make decisions for themselves. A mother is an adult (or should be) and we all know that as adults (and unfortunately as children) we are constantly bombarded by advertising. We have to make the choices for ourselves, and I hope if a breastfeeding mother wants samples...she will be given some. Also, how can you compare a Coke to formula? Formula does provide nutritional value to babies when a mother chooses not to breastfeed or if a mother is not available. A lot of people say that caffeine is harmful to fetuses and breastfed babies, should we ban all coke advertisements anywhere a breastfeeding or preggo mama should be?

And someone mentioned that "if hypothetically a mother chose to stop breastfeeding because of samples" would I want it banned??? HELL NO, HELL HELL HELL HELL HELL NO!! I still find it an insult. Sorry.

Yes, I know it's not a true ban, that's not the insulting part. I feel a mother should be educated to make the decisions she will need to for her baby. And if she chooses to formula feed, everyone should respect her wishes.

 

Maybe the pro-sample folks can answer a few questions.....

1) Does providing free formula samples actually benefit a new mother and her baby?

2) In what way does she/baby benefit from them?

3) How do you feel about the waste of resources in free samples? The extra packaging materials, the cans that will be tossed away in land fills, the energy used to produce them?

4) How do you feel about formula advertising in Third World nations, where thousands of infants die yearly from diseases caused by improperly diluted formula, unsanitary conditions, and limited access to clean drinking water?

5) The formula companies and the pro-breastfeeding advocates use the same studies in their push to provide free samples and the push to eliminate them ( a woman who has free formula samples is more likely to turn to them in desperation and end their breastfeeding relationship early). Knowing this, as the formula companies do, how do you justify the ethics of the formula companies, who deliberately and knowingly sabotage breastfeeding for profit?