Now a famous Professor Atheist believes in God existence

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by catstevens, Aug 16, 2005.

  1. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    It is one truth, whenever someone says the truth; others call him insane that's it. :) The history testifies many of the stories which are of the like.

    Mr Flew never has been called as an insane or rather (amnesiac/ memory loss and the like) until his believe, exactly as catstevens some of his fans changed towards him just because he converted to Islam.

    Sweet the rain's new fall, sunlit from heavens

    Like the first dewfall, on the first grass


    Hmmmm *hummimg*

    Enjoy your dayJ

    YoursSincerely,

    CatStevens
     
  2. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    i dont get this "too complex" stuff. Complex in relation to what? Something that was created without an intelligent creator? That doesnt make much sense.
     
  3. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Colours


    Quote it.
     
  4. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Quraan: 2: 212:
    Beautified is the life of this world for those who disbelieve, and they mock at those who believe.
    Quraan: 13:26:
    … and they rejoice in the life of the world, whereas the life of this world as a compared with the hereafter is but a brief passing enjoyment.
    Quraan: 28:60:
    And whatever you have been given is an enjoyment of the life of (this) world and its adornment, and that (hereafter) which is with Allah is better and will remain for ever. Have you then no sense?
    Quraan: 40:39:
    … Truly, this life of the world is nothing but a (quick passing) enjoyment, and verily, the hereafter that is the home that will remain forever.

    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  5. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    i dont quite understand what you mean? did he say that too orsomething?
     
  6. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Colours

    You said:

    So, Quote (copy) the sentence or the paragraph that you didn't understand it. "too complex" è in which paragraph exactly.
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  7. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    Yet biologists' investigation of DNA "has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved,"
     
  8. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe

    Colours

    Firstly I hope that you had read the all article to avoid any misunderstandings,
    Well, to me it is clear and I don't to how to make it clearer, so perhaps this will work:
    Quote: Antony Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

    OK, i.e. the human being body (inside) is really too complicated (complex).
    If it has been said to us that: the white house or a school was formed and appeared as it is now by itself without an architect or mason, will we believe that? No.
    Because the school with its rooms and beautiful building points to a smart engineer and builder, building isn't easy, it is too complicated.
    Try to find a building which the builders still building it, and see the complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (a building)è (complex maps- different shapes of woods- cement- etc)

    so how can we believe that this earth which we are living on it and these multifarious wonderful countless creatures has been existed by chance by itself without a creator who had existed them. Look to your self and body it is too complicated and there are countless nerves in your body which each nerve linked to an organ and have its function! Is that happened by chance by evolution?

    Can you believe that a steamy machine or any kind of pumps has been formed by itself without an inventor and it started to work without who turned it on? No. so how can we then believe that a machine like the heart in the human body can be existed without a creator? The heart keeps on working regularly in its diastole and systole; it is the organ which points to the greatest and faculty of the God. The heart is a meaty myocardium but it is stronger than the iron machines, because the heart starts its work since the embryo forms in his Mum's abdomen and keeps on working without stopping all during human's life which could extends to eighty or seventy years without needing to reform it as the need of the iron machines although it work for specific hours! Isn't that points to the existence of a creator?
    Quraan: 51:20:
    And on earth are signs for those who have faith with certainly.21: And also in your ownselves. Will you not then see? (Signs of the existence of God)

    A garage full of scraps metal & scraps iron, by chance there was a timed bomb between them, suddenly the timed bomb exploded, a Roserise car has resulted from that explosion. Wow What an explosion it was!! Can you believe this theory? Car is very complicated? Take a look.

    Look to the computer how it is complicated? There are many of tiny metal parts which every one of it have its own function. Who is more complicated the computer or the human being's body? It is too clear, the human being body. Surely God is existed. What do you think? The eyes it self only, is more complicated than the whole computer? Think a lot, my deepest best wishes.

    Quraan: 12: 105:
    And how many a sign in the heavens and earth they pass by, while they are averse therefrom (i.e. yet they turn (their faces) away from them.
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  9. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    so how can we believe that this earth which we are living on it and these multifarious wonderful countless creatures has been existed by chance by itself without a creator who had existed them. Look to your self and body it is too complicated and there are countless nerves in your body which each nerve linked to an organ and have its function! Is that happened by chance by evolution?


    But what are you comparing its complexity to? Have you ever seen something complex that wasnt made by a God? Maybe its not complex, maybe what you think is complex is just how things work.
     
  10. nitemarehippygirl

    nitemarehippygirl Senior Member

    EXACTLY. Could God have created something better? more complex? more perfect?
    You wouldn't know!! This is all you see; it's like a tree existing alone in the void and proclaiming itself "Beautiful". Ha......! Very arrogant.



    also, if god created these human bodies so perfectly, why are there so many problems with them? the appendix and tonsils, for example. i don't think there is anything to show that the appendix has any function in humans, and if anything, does more harm than good. the complications and dangers of an infected appendix are well known, and surgery to remove the human appendix doesn't have any bad effects.
    so what's up, god? why the faulty design? even if you want to argue that the appendix has some sort of vague function as part of the immune system, surely a better organ could have been thought up by the Almighty than this troublemaker. could God have done a better job in this case? probably, but we wouldn't know.
     
  11. soaringeagle

    soaringeagle Senior Member

    how could i read all the article with all the changung colors hurtinng my eyes & it taking you sooooooooo long to make a point..& i agree about the what do u mean too complex thing, thatds too complex today...too complex in 20-50 to 100 years is nothing the computer your on right now was too complex to be imaginably possible 100 years ago did god create the computer? flew is 80 his minds getting tired hes tired of thinkimng about dna so give up its impossible to unravle so maybe there wasa god...time to die
     
  12. nitemarehippygirl

    nitemarehippygirl Senior Member

    lol..... exactly. 'complex' is just a word; what can we compare our assumptions to?
    flying was thought impossible, telephones unthinkable,
    the internet would have been considered a miracle from god in the New World for heaven's sake.
    just because we don't understand it and currently can't do it doesn't make it Perfect Creation.
    for example, i want to time-warp over to my friend's house instead of taking the bus. but this is impossible. we couldn't do that, right? maybe, maybe not. maybe things are "complex" right now, and maybe we're they're not very complex at all.
     
  13. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe


    I gave you examples, I wanted to show you that human and earth are complex, I don't know how to make it clearer? Mr Flew wasn't believe in God, but when he found the complex, not a random complex , well-arranged complex he started to believe that there must be someone who can do this well-arranged complex things (creatures) I don't know how to clarify it more. :)

    I think you lost me, every thing to me was made by God not by (the evolution theory) to me, how by the evolution by an explosion by chance these well-arranged creature appeared? The complex is in their selves and how things work. How human can imagine things that is really amazing (daydreams/ imagination/ dreams etc) what a brain we have by chance!!!!.


    Oh nite are you serious, if you will buy a new recorder with two stereos but you found that every thing is working except the left stereo speaker is that mean then no body created the recorders because the human is smart and can make perfect stuffs? Yeah the human can make mistakes but God no, God created the blind, the dumb, etc. he can do every thing. God created every human being and creature as his will, and there is a wisdom behind this perhaps we can realize all of his wisdoms or a test from God I won't discuss this issue now because the issue is how did the earth exist and the creature ,all kind of them the perfected or the unperfected. :)


    Easy, I don't know if you have these buttons on your monitor to make the brightness of your monitor less as much as you like. But I think next time I will choose other calm colors.


    God created the brain to human and with it the human created the computer :)



    Hahaha they can't stand the other different opinion so they don't have any thing to say only '' they are insane''

    The brain (God's creation) created the internet :) , our brain (memory) is a library Archie for the nice past memories and our information saved in our memory our brain is ( a memory card) we can imagine things too wow, surely you are the creator God. I love you so much.

    Ok, forget the complex stuff, who created the universe, that's it, the earth, the creature, how did we exist? What has happened an explosion?


    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  14. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    i suppose the human body couldnt function any other way. Can you imagine a human thats just hollow on the inside, but somehow works? Complex is just how things are. So maybe its not complexity, its just how things have to work if theyre going to exist.
     
  15. Love_N_it

    Love_N_it Banned

    Don't underestimate this child.
     
  16. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

    but what are you comparing buildings too? we dont believe it would occur without a designer because it is not whitnessed in nature anywhere without human mental interaction. however DNA and life IS nature. you remove the very thing that is comparable to man made things - naturally occuring things. when you put them under the same idea -designed, you remove any possibility for integrity, everything its the same. you cant define something unless you can compare it with something thats different.

    if you define nature as being 'designed' then what is not designed? what in your whole universe is not designed? by saying everything is designed you lose a definition around design then how do you know what designing something even means? if you dont know what it doesnt mean?
     
  17. Cat, dude... it's all very well you trying to use this as an excuse to say that islam is the one true path, but I think you'll find you are mistaken.

    OK, so sure, this guy now believes in god - mind you, he's not talking about allah - he's talking in terms of some type of supreme being that, essentially, kick-started creation (as stated in the big-bang theory)

    This is so far away from what you're trying to promote, if you was to talk with this giy, he would laugh in your face..
     
  18. catstevens

    catstevens Muslim Top To Toe


    Yeah but how did they exist?

    Hey Love_N_it! Why ''child''? For what this time? Anyway children are lucky that because they are innocent and don't know how horrible this world is and some people caused it (politicians, criminals, greedy, money worshippers Etc) they still don't know so O children enjoy your times as much as you can before you know.

    My point was every thing has been existed points to someone who had produced (created) it.

    How did they exist?


    And if so, so what that's up to me :cool:
    Yours Sincerely,
    Cat Stevens
     
  19. Colours

    Colours Senior Member

    Yeah but how did they exist?

    thats a completely different question?
     
  20. StonerBill

    StonerBill Learn

    "How did they exist?"

    not even your religion states 'how' things came to exist. religions say who brought about existance, someteims why they did, in what order they existed, and perhaps in simple terms the nature of the existance (for example, ingredients of man: mud, and god's power... but thats like saying the ingedients for cake are flour eggs and butter, without explaining how the chemicals within each component mix and behave as heat is applied.. which by the way i dont think is known either.. something as simple as a human making a cake!) but none give the process in terms of the physical components that are in our world, how things came about.
     

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