I think to most of us, asking questions means expecting answers. Not comming up with the most intresting and nefarious scheme to take the place of explaining all events.
Not everyone that believes in alternative 9/11 theories apart from the official conspiracy believe in a zionist conspiracy or in the illuminati, they just don't believe the official story for good reasons and they want an independent investigation that actually investigates that day without a bias or a conflict of interest. So Balbus, stop being a troll and sounding as ignorant as you do right now.
Angel As I’ve said many times, I’m in favour of a thorough and unbiased investigation of 9/11 (and its aftermath). But that is not the issue I’m talking about, which is being willing to get involved in political debate For example, I’ve been trying to find out what politically you want to do about what you see as the corruption in the US system and the political policies you would like to see in place to change things in light of 9./11 (and its aftermath). The problem is that you seem incredibly reluctant to talk about these things either giving ‘answers’ to questions that are so vague as to be useless or ignoring them altogether. The fact is you (like Rat) continually shy away from any serious political debate. ** So here are some of the things I know about you so far? You are right wing. You strongly advocate capitalism and the free market You are nationalistic. You don’t think voting Democrat will change anything You think the “smarter of the parties is the Conservative Party”. You think Bush and Cheney are liberals You believe in the gold standard. You think the banks run the government. You believe secret societies operate within the government. You have had for the past few months the picture of Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illumanti, as your sig. ** I’ve tried to discuss virtually all of these things with you at one time or another since you turned up here but so far you have refused. **
"You are right wing." See this is just so you balbus, make everything black and white, I am not left or right, I just am pro-freedom, anything that takes freedom from people (I.e airport nazi security, patriot act) i am against, and things that give us freedom (like having the right to bear arms and having the right to protest in front of the white house) I am for. "You strongly advocate capitalism and the free market" Yes I do, for the main reason that if you have a population that can self sustain and make their OWN money and not have to rely on a big government to provide it for them, we end up with a population who can get power and be able to change things, do you think things like moveon.org would be able to sustain themselves in a system where the government controls the money supply and who can buy and sell things and who can make or not make money and how much? "You are nationalistic." What do you mean by this, do I think America is better than other countries? No I don't, I think America is a great country and a beacon of freedom, many people on here are too stupid or too young to realize that America, as shitty as its getting, still has the best human rights on the planet and we have some of the most great people here as well. I do not think America has the right to go into sovereign nations for no reason, and neither do I think the UN should be able to. I am a sovereigntist if anything, I tihnk countries should be able to do what they want and make their own and follow their own laws and not have to worry about the UN coming in and telling them what to do, but I am not a nationalist, I do not think America is in any way superior, I think our country has just as much corruption if not more than any other country in the world. "You don’t think voting Democrat will change anything" Sadly, I really don't. I wish we could vote democratic and change something, but these democrats that are able to get into a presidential campaign are not the democrats that live down the street who own a hybrid and drink green tea, these people are just fake, they have dinner with lead republicans, it's all a big joke to them about how they manipulate us into thinking we can make changhe by voting for them, they sit around and laugh at us, and that angers me. "You think the “smarter of the parties is the Conservative Party”. I usually think conservatives (Real conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts, Ron Paul...) are smarter when it comes to the economy, and they just like liberals are always up to fighting the theft of our civil liberties, so I don't think they are the smarter of the two parties in that part...and I usually think Liberal people have more heart and care for people a lot of times and conservatives usually want to get what needs to be done for the better good, so I usally am with the liberals on that one because I try to care for people and have more heart, but that's because I am young, I heard a quote once that said "if you aren't a liberal when your young, you have no heart, if you aren't a conservative as an adult, you have no brain" I don't agree completely, but it kinda states what I feel. "You think Bush and Cheney are liberals" well you say liberals like what most people think are liberals, which is the hippy type liberal, which I love more than anyone, but there are also a different kind of liberal which is people who are just as coldhearted as the right wing guys we all hate, but just support different policies, Bush and Cheney are anti-gun (Not because they wanna help people, but because when they wanna smash in our houses when martial law comes they don't want us shooting back) they want to erase the borders of mexico, canada, and the US which is also a liberal view. If you look at Bush and Cheney, their history is going out and saying "we're conservative" and getting the conservative votes, while they are doing all these left wing things, and not good left wing like a lot of people are into here, but Stalin Left-Wing, it's still dictatorship but Left Wing. Look at Hitler, Far right, Look at Stalin, Far Left, Still Concentration Camps, Loss Of Liberty, etc. there is dictators who are Left-Wing, believe it nor not balbus, and these people will come in here acting like our conservative saviors as they completely destroy our sovereignty. "You believe in the gold standard." I don't actually know too much about the Gold Standard, I think investing your money in gold is great because you get a lot back it's a great investment. I also think that our monetary system would be of FAR bigger worth if we had gold to back up our money, this is just common sense, why is our money worth anything more than cotton paper? Because our gov. and the Fed says so and that's all, its based on trust, if we had gold to back it up we wouldn't have as bad inflation as we do now. "You think the banks run the government." Yeah dude, I do....its common sense, big banks that control the money supply have unlimited money, governments of countries need money, so they borrow money from the big banks in MASS, so big they need to spend the next decade or more paying them back, but instead of paying them back the big banks go "hey do what we tell you and makybe well help u out with that debt" and if you read a book called "confessions of an economic hitman", this man talks about how he was a tool of these banks and other governments to go into countries and get governments to take out big loans they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back JUST so they could control the government of that country. It really makes a lot of sense and isn't as crazy as you try to make it out to be. "You believe secret societies operate within the government." Yes, but that's common knowledge, ask anyone in the gov if there aren't masons in the govt helping out there fellow brothers before helping out the country. If one politician has someone killed off and many other politicians are masons with him, they will not try to uncover this, they will help their freind. Even George Washington and Jefferson talked about how dangerous it was to have secret sociieties in the government. "You have had for the past few months the picture of Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illumanti, as your sig. " Yep...
You are right wing." See this is just so you balbus, make everything black and white, I am not left or right, I just am pro-freedom, anything that takes freedom from people (I.e airport nazi security, patriot act) i am against, and things that give us freedom (like having the right to bear arms and having the right to protest in front of the white house) I am for. As I’ve said many times there are many shades of rightwing and leftwing thought. The problem so far with you is that I had very little information to go on (not for the want of asking) so although it was obvious that you had right wing views I was unsure what nature those views took. Hopefully this post will go some way to help? ** "You strongly advocate capitalism and the free market" Yes I do, for the main reason that if you have a population that can self sustain and make their OWN money and not have to rely on a big government to provide it for them, we end up with a population who can get power and be able to change things, do you think things like moveon.org would be able to sustain themselves in a system where the government controls the money supply and who can buy and sell things and who can make or not make money and how much? This doesn’t actually explain what form of capitalist free market policies you are advocating and in what way these are meant to stop US government ‘corruption’ and the grip the wealthy elite have on the US political system. As I’ve said elsewhere (about the media) a free market system is likely to me put a lot of power in the hands of the wealthy elite. ** "You are nationalistic." What do you mean by this, do I think America is better than other countries? No I don't, I think America is a great country and a beacon of freedom, many people on here are too stupid or too young to realize that America, as shitty as its getting, still has the best human rights on the planet and we have some of the most great people here as well. I do not think America has the right to go into sovereign nations for no reason, and neither do I think the UN should be able to. I am a sovereigntist if anything, I tihnk countries should be able to do what they want and make their own and follow their own laws and not have to worry about the UN coming in and telling them what to do, but I am not a nationalist, I do not think America is in any way superior, I think our country has just as much corruption if not more than any other country in the world. You don’t have to think overtly that your country is better than other to be a nationalist. “I think America is a great country and a beacon of freedom” In what way is it ‘great’ and in what sense do you think it has championed freedom? The US “still has the best human rights on the planet”. The US’s history on human rights has not being that good from its treatment of indigenous populations, use of slavery long term acceptance of segregation thorough to it many abuses in Latin America and on to its high levels of execution and huge numbers incarcerated in what many describe as a brutal prison system and ending with ‘extraordinary rendition’ ** "You think the “smarter of the parties is the Conservative Party”. I usually think conservatives (Real conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts, Ron Paul...) are smarter when it comes to the economy, and they just like liberals are always up to fighting the theft of our civil liberties, so I don't think they are the smarter of the two parties in that part...and I usually think Liberal people have more heart and care for people a lot of times and conservatives usually want to get what needs to be done for the better good, so I usally am with the liberals on that one because I try to care for people and have more heart, but that's because I am young, I heard a quote once that said "if you aren't a liberal when your young, you have no heart, if you aren't a conservative as an adult, you have no brain" I don't agree completely, but it kinda states what I feel. Sorry please clarify You seem to be saying that although you want to care for people, you also wish to retain the right not to if it suits you? ** "You think Bush and Cheney are liberals" well you say liberals like what most people think are liberals, which is the hippy type liberal, which I love more than anyone, but there are also a different kind of liberal which is people who are just as coldhearted as the right wing guys we all hate, but just support different policies, Bush and Cheney are anti-gun (Not because they wanna help people, but because when they wanna smash in our houses when martial law comes they don't want us shooting back) they want to erase the borders of mexico, canada, and the US which is also a liberal view. If you look at Bush and Cheney, their history is going out and saying "we're conservative" and getting the conservative votes, while they are doing all these left wing things, and not good left wing like a lot of people are into here, but Stalin Left-Wing, it's still dictatorship but Left Wing. Look at Hitler, Far right, Look at Stalin, Far Left, Still Concentration Camps, Loss Of Liberty, etc. there is dictators who are Left-Wing, believe it nor not balbus, and these people will come in here acting like our conservative saviors as they completely destroy our sovereignty. Stalin and Hitler were both dictators in totalitarian states. So you are pro-gun because you believe having a gun will protect you from the police or FBI if they come for you? Do you actually think if you shoot at them it would work? “they want to erase the borders of mexico, canada, and the US which is also a liberal view” I’m unsure what you mean by this? Many right wingers promote the idea of free trade areas along capitalistic and free market principles that you claim to support. As a left winger I’m not in favour of trade agreements that do not benefit the people as a whole but mainly only the few. “while they are doing all these left wing things” – what ‘left wing’ things are you talking about. ** "You believe in the gold standard." I don't actually know too much about the Gold Standard, I think investing your money in gold is great because you get a lot back it's a great investment. I also think that our monetary system would be of FAR bigger worth if we had gold to back up our money, this is just common sense, why is our money worth anything more than cotton paper? Because our gov. and the Fed says so and that's all, its based on trust, if we had gold to back it up we wouldn't have as bad inflation as we do now. So why don’t you go to the gold standard thread and we can discuss it? ** "You think the banks run the government." Yeah dude, I do....its common sense, big banks that control the money supply have unlimited money, governments of countries need money, so they borrow money from the big banks in MASS, so big they need to spend the next decade or more paying them back, but instead of paying them back the big banks go "hey do what we tell you and makybe well help u out with that debt" and if you read a book called "confessions of an economic hitman", this man talks about how he was a tool of these banks and other governments to go into countries and get governments to take out big loans they knew they wouldn't be able to pay back JUST so they could control the government of that country. It really makes a lot of sense and isn't as crazy as you try to make it out to be. Yet you believe in a capitalistic and free market system where such financial elements would be able to act with impunity? ** "You believe secret societies operate within the government." Yes, but that's common knowledge, ask anyone in the gov if there aren't masons in the govt helping out there fellow brothers before helping out the country. If one politician has someone killed off and many other politicians are masons with him, they will not try to uncover this, they will help their freind. Even George Washington and Jefferson talked about how dangerous it was to have secret sociieties in the government. So what would you do about it? ** "You have had for the past few months the picture of Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illumanti, as your sig. " Yep... Not direct enough for you? OK why do you have a picture of Adam Weishaupt, the founder of the Illumanti, as your sig? ** OK to recap There seems to be a major contradiction within your viewpoint. You seem to wish to limit the influence of national government to within there borders but allow financial elements , banks, corporations etc to be international, therefore increasing the power of the wealthy elite and decreasing the power of the people. You wish to limit what you see as societal corruption but seem to support a capitalistic and free market system that is often the main element in that corruption (political lobbying, manipulating of thought by control of the media etc)
Since Ballbust also mentioned my name in the paragraph preceeding the questions (assertions, rather) he presented to Angel, I feel I also need to answer his assertions so I will not continue to be falsely accused by him of shying away from discussion. In my opinion, when it comes to the truth, there is no Right and Left. Like I have said before, there is only right and wrong. I will say on the record that I despise liberalism and believe it to be synonymous with everything subversive and in favor of the Elite's plan for global control, whether it be the destruction of the family unit, phony environmentalism (which has nothing to do with protecting the environment), or just plain big-government fascism. This is why the Elite are usually behind "liberal" causes that seem nice, wholesome and innocent to the public, but the underlying agenda is anything but. Both political parties are using socialism to usher in big government and tyranny. That is a fact! I don't consider myself to be a Right winger, but I will say that I am staunchly opposed to modern liberalism (socialism). Period. Both have their flaws regardless of the circumstances, but there is a difference between capitalism and the super-capitalism/corporatism (ie: socialism) being practiced today. There is also no free market, because contrary to the rhetoric, you cannot have a free market when the so-called free market is dominated by a monopoly. We are talking about CRONY CAPITALISM here, which is not true free market capitalism in the least. Not in the traditional "my country is the best," "God bless America" kind of way. I simply feel that the alternative, globalism, is far worse. The reason the Elite want to do away with nation states is because they want full and open control over every man, woman and child on this planet. It's all about the centralization of power in the hands of the bankers, who do in fact run the show from behind the scenes. Of course it won't change anything! To think otherwise is kind of naive, since both parties are controlled by the same corporate, big-money interests, feature people who are members of the same secret societies, and are both are working towards the goals of the New World Order. There is not a dime's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans. There is no "conservative" party. The closest to that would be the Libertarian Party or the Constitution Party. Anyone opposed to the current socialist, big-government system is OK with me. BECAUSE THEY ARE LIBERALS! They are hardcore, globalist/socialist liberals disguised under the name "Republican". How else do you explain an administration that has spent more money than any before it, while nearly tripling the size of our government? That is unadulterated, unabashed SOCIALISM. Bush and Cheney are NOT conservatives in the least. They are the ANTITHESIS of conservatives. What I don't believe in is an Elite cabal that prints worthless paper money out of thin air then charges interest on it, indebting nations through this faux system they created for their own gain and the exploitation of everyone else. They do. Who do you think runs the government, Balbus, George Bush and Tony Blair? Please say yes so I can laugh in your face. This is common knowledge to anyone who has studied history.
i got to agree with rat on this one, you're asking us all to be awfully naive balbus. The democratic party members are just as as bad as the republican party members: lamont and lieberman: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187958 fienstien: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=184977 hillary clinton: http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2790302#post2790302 Just recent examples of the hypocrisy of your "opposition" party.
i'd make gnome chompski president, howard zinn vice, amy goodman secritary of state, dennis kussenich interior and environment, jerry brown housing and urband development, dan costa transportation, peter cameo in there somewhere, as everything else, and head of the senate or whoever is next in line after the vp incase the president gets offed. that's my dream team though not all of it and probably not the final line up. i guess i'd bring back what's his name, as secritary of defense. the one bush kicked out when he said "hey wait a minuit, don't those reconascence photo's look an awfull lot like leggo blox". =^^= .../\...
Rat Spooky or what, are you saying that you and Angel are sooooo linked and on message that you are interchangeable? So that if I ask questions aimed at one the other is able to answer? I mean Rat these are not the comments I’d aim at you, in fact your replies are what I’d expect from you they are not new you’ve said them many, many times before in one way or another. All you are doing is reiterating the views you have never been able to debate or defend. But thanks it gives me another chance to ask the same questions I’ve asked before in the forlorn hope that just maybe you might have the decency to reply this time. ** You’ve tried to pull the old right /left, right /wrong act before, and I’ll ask the same that I asked then – why do you run away from explaining or discussing the things you claim are ‘right’. Why is it that as far as I can tell you have championed only one political philosophy and that is right wing libertarianism. I’ve asked you many questions on this subject and you invariably run away or call me names. ** CRONY CAPITALISM Yes you’ve shouted it many times. So I’ll ask again (as I have many times before) – what political policies would you like to put in place to change things for the better in this matter? ** Yes Rat I know your views on nationalism, I tried to have a debate about it before, but like then you didn’t want to talk about it only about ‘the conspiracy’. Again I’ll ask – what policies do you believe need to be in place that you believe would make things better in this matter? ** Yes I already know you think both the Democrats and Republicans are too right wing, but I’ll ask you again – what kind of government would you like in place and what kind of policies would it follow? ** Yes I think we all know by now that you believe zionist devil worshippers run the world but once more I’ll ask you - what do you want to actually do to combat this ‘conspiracy’ you believe in – what policies do you believe need to be in place that you believe would make things better? ** You see the thing is that from the things you have said and others you have hinted at it is clear that you seem to support a lot of things that would make the rich elite, richer and more influential. I’ve been trying to find out if that is correct by trying to find out what politically you want and stand for, but you seem very unwilling to discuss such things, which seems to indicate you are trying to hide something. I think you are trying to hide the fact that you would make the rich elite, richer and more influential. I’ve said this many times and explained my reasons for having that opinion, I’ve given you many chances to refute my claims but every time you run away. Oh I know you claim to be fighting ‘the elite’, ‘the Establishment’, ‘the conspiracy’ but why is it that time after time you are unable to counter the claim that you actually seem to be working on their behalf and run away from debate of this matter. **
"Both political parties are using socialism to usher in big government and tyranny. That is a fact!" it is? i would say rat is using a very strainge deffinician of socialism. one i cannot even immagine let alone ever recall ever having heard. if anything what "both political parties are using""to usher in big government and tyranny" is ANTI-socialist pseudo conservatism. i'm really curious as to where rat is getting his interpretation he's using of these terms. =^^= .../\...
Balbus, just ask him to dance already... every thread rat posts in you have to turn it into a "rat explain your conspiracy" thread. Granted, rat posts about his conspiracy in every thread, but does it have to take over the discussion everytime? let it go.
People who support socialism usually only see it in the idealistic light it was portrayed to them by the books and magazines they read. There is nothing conservative about our government. The consolidation of wealth by the state to further the size and power of that state is socialism, whether you agree with that or not. There are many different types of socialism at the superficial level, but beneath the veneer it's all the same in that it serves to transfer the wealth from the people to the state, to the benefit of the state.
OK once again replies are not forthcoming. I’m sorry but as I’ve warned you just recently if you are this unwilling to actually debate your views then you become nothing but a troll whose post are little more than common spam. I’ve been reluctant in the past to act because I knew that you contributed to many other forums besides those in the politics section. But it is now clear that the number complaints against you are not just confined to this section. It has therefore been decided that you would benefit from a bit of time away from the forums, time that we all hope you will use to reflect on the way you have conducted yourself on hipforums in the past and I for one will be eagerly awaiting your return. Ten days time off. (PS: Be warned that If you try to return in the time off period your period of suspension may be extended or made permanent)
LOL “Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim'rous beastie, O, what a panic's in thy breastie! Thou need na start awa sae hasty Wi bickering brattle! I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee, Wi' murdering pattle” Robert Burns
