Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by wooleeheron, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    No evidence for a fifth force has been found, suggesting a need to re-evaluate their scalar theories. My own theory is also a scalar one, but assumes that even whether we inhabit two, three, or four dimensions is something science will never be able to establish, explaining why scalar theory falls apart in extreme contexts. By ruling out specific lines of symmetry the physicists are making progress in describing the universe topologically, the simplest way to approach the subject of nonsensical yin-yang dynamics.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
    BeatinFeet69 likes this.

  2. What? nonsensical yin-yang dynamics? What?

    The article says there is no 5th force evident on the difference between structure of mass to a level of precision 1 in 10^14. Which pretty much doesnt prove anything, a billion dollar satellite to not prove anything

    the 5th force being the we-dont-know-everything-so-we-will-make-up-a-magical-5th-force-to-not-really-explain-some-shit force

    And the definition of a dimension something measurable of a particular kind, so something like colour is a dimension, there have been extra dimensions of time proposed, no one can even work out if we do live in a 3 dimensional world, or even if time exists. These extra dimensions in string theory are just to make shit work
  3. egger

    egger Member

    An article from 2005.

    The Microscope Project Begins
    25 June 2005

    ESA Science & Technology: The MICROSCOPE Project Begins


    "The MICROSCOPE experiment is an attempt to test the Equivalence principle with a resolution of 10-15, in other words almost three orders of magnitude more than the best tests so far performed on Earth. The idea is to measure the relative acceleration of two masses of different composition in free motion in a drag compensated satellite, in orbit in the Earth's gravitational field.

    The main advantage of a space experiment is that it will eliminate random vibrations of seismic origin, which limit laboratory experiments. In addition, it is possible to compare the relative motion of two masses for much longer times, longer than the satellite's orbital period around the Earth.

    Any violation of the Equivalence principle would be of vital importance because it would bring into question the very basis of General Relativity and, more generally speaking our understanding of the space-time environment. It would be the first sign of new physical phenomena, the signatures of new interactions or new forces, which are not explained by our standard physics model. It would thus bring into question our knowledge at the interface between the field quantum theory and relativity theories of gravitation as well as the application of these theories to astrophysics and cosmology.

    Inversely, if the principle were to be confirmed to an accuracy of 10^15 this would be extremely interesting, as it would place new constraints on unified models of fundamental interactions"
  4. egger

    egger Member

    MICROSCOPE cost about 200 million euros. Other similar satellites have been proposed that could increase the sensitivity to one part in 10^17 and 10^18

    Galileo's 400-year-old theory of free-falling objects passes space test
    By Edwin Cartlidge
    Nov. 28, 2017 , 4:40 PM


    "A proposed Italian satellite, aptly named Galileo Galilei, would test equivalence to a precision of one part in 10^17, partly by spinning rapidly and isolating any signal from more slowly varying systematic effects. Researchers at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, have proposed a satellite that aims to reach one part in 10^18 using noise-reducing cryogenics. Still other researchers hope to use Bose-Einstein condensates—clouds of cold atoms that behave as a single quantum wave—to reach tight limits."
  5. egger

    egger Member

    NASA launched the Gravity Probe satellite mission to study general relativity.

    NASA's Gravity Probe B Confirms Two Einstein Space-Time Theories

    NASA - Gravity Probe B: The Relativity Mission


    "NASA's Gravity Probe B (GP-B) mission has confirmed two key predictions derived from Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity, which the spacecraft was designed to test. The experiment, launched in 2004, used four ultra-precise gyroscopes to measure the hypothesized geodetic effect, the warping of space and time around a gravitational body, and frame-dragging, the amount a spinning object pulls space and time with it as it rotates. GP-B determined both effects with unprecedented precision by pointing at a single star, IM Pegasi, while in a polar orbit around Earth."
  6. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Yeah, I don't expect them to find anything. There is a consistent pattern of experiments producing negative results, not just a lack of results mind you, but downright negative results that make no sense whatsoever. They are discovering that the laws of physics represent the ground state, or default, and there is no apparent classical explanation for why the universe exists. For example, nobody has yet figured out why the universe has more matter than anti-matter when, of course, their classical mathematics insist there must be a reason.
  7. wilsjane

    wilsjane Member

    Life in many ways is a hypothesis.
    I always consider the limit of the human race is our inability to comprehend infinity, leaving us totally unaware of how we feature in both time and distance.
    we know that the lowest frequency is 0hz, but what is the highest.? Their is a theory that, like xrays, frequencies could exist that would allow an almost parallel existence in the universe, almost in the way that I can talk to you on a cellphone and everyone between us is unaware.
    Certain research is also kept secret, particularly anything concerning the harmonic frequency of the human body. Believed to be around 7hz it is a subject that is a total taboo in research. I once asked the institute of science and technology for research papers dating back to WW2 and was told that the most likely result that I would get was to be found floating face down in the river. It was said with a laugh, but it makes me wonder exactly what is hidden from us all.
  8. But with the 5th force they are talking about a 2nd weak force or something yet undetermined that has something to do with dark energy

    A weak force weaker than the weak nuclear force

    Now with the weak nuclear force, W and Z bosons only last for 10^-24 seconds and combined with mass and stength has a range of 10^-17

    The weak nuclear force is 10^-4 weaker than the electomagnetic force and who knows how much weaker this 2nd weak force is compared to the weak nuclear force

    Talk about levels of precision around 1 in 10^17, probably is still way off
  9. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    There's an old myth that if you tweaked a stack of high powered amps at a rock concert to spit out the lowest possible note, you could make people crap their pants, but its false. People can rant and rave all they want, but a universe with apparently at least 8 dimensions is simply humanly incomprehensible and the fact it is often useful to formulate physics as wave mechanics is more of a reflection of our own limitations. Ever since radio waves were discovered everyone's dreamed of some sort of wave mechanics making sense out of everything, but a wave without a particle is a contradiction, and life remains just as mysterious and magical today as it did 150 years ago, and every bit as confusing.
  10. egger

    egger Member

    One of the rationales for attempting to measure violation of universality of free fall to very high precision concerns the act of placing constraints on unifications theories, such as variants of string theory, that incorporate a hypothetical long-range field that would impart a force on matter that depends on the composition of the atoms. This would cause very slight composition-dependent differences in free-fall behavior. The mathematics of such theories relate the coupling strength of the scalar to the mass and to the amount of the violation of the universality of free fall. The math can be complicated. The following article gives an overview of some of the mathematics involved.

    The rationale for investing in orbital free fall experiments is that they have a high probing power relative to other methods when looking for violations of equivalence principle, on the order of on part in 10^18 for current technology flown on satellites.

    Questioning The Equivalence Principle
    Thibault Damour
    Institut des Hautes Etudes Scientiques, 91440 Bures-sur-Yvette, France

    free pdf download of full paper

    [gr-qc/0109063] Questioning the Equivalence Principle
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018
  11. egger

    egger Member

    The Equivalence Principle
    Author: Patrick Barry | Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips | Credit: Science@NASA
    May 18, 2007

    The Equivalence Principle | Science Mission Directorate


    "For example, some versions of string theory suggest that this new force would interact with the electromagnetic energy contained in a material. Two atoms that have the same mass can contain different amounts of electromagnetic energy if, say, one has more protons, which have an electric charge, while the other has more neutrons, which have no charge. Traditional gravity would pull on both of these atoms equally, but if gravity includes this new force, the pull on these two atoms would differ ever so slightly.

    No experiment to date has detected this tiny difference. But now three groups of scientists are proposing space-borne missions that would hunt for this effect with greater sensitivity than ever before.

    "What you want to do is take two test masses made of different materials and watch for very small differences in how fast they fall," Will says. "On Earth, an object can only fall for a short time before it hits the ground. But an object in orbit is literally falling around the Earth, so it can fall continuously for a long time." Tiny differences in the pull of gravity would accumulate over time, perhaps growing large enough to be detectable."
  12. egger

    egger Member

    An article about the weekly coupled string dilaton and the need to experimentally test Einstein's Equivalence Principle to high precision.

    The String Dilaton and a Least Coupling Principle
    T. Damour
    Institut des Hautes Etudes Scientifiques, 91440 Bures sur Yvette and,
    DARC, CNRS-Observatoire de Paris, 92195 Meudon, France
    A.M. Polyakov
    Physics Department, Jadwin Hall, Princeton University,
    Princeton, New Jersey 08544, U.S.A.
    (February 1, 2008)

    free pdf download


    It is pointed out that string-loop modifications of the low-energy matter
    couplings of the dilaton may provide a mechanism for fixing the vacuum
    expectation value of a massless dilaton in a way which is naturally compatible
    with existing experimental data. Under a certain assumption of universality
    of the dilaton coupling functions , the cosmological evolution of the gravitondilaton-
    matter system is shown to drive the dilaton towards values where it
    decouples from matter (“Least Coupling Principle”). Quantitative estimates
    are given of the residual strength, at the present cosmological epoch, of the
    coupling to matter of the dilaton. The existence of a weakly coupled massless
    dilaton entails a large spectrum of small, but non-zero, observable deviations
    from general relativity. In particular, our results provide a new motivation
    for trying to improve by several orders of magnitude the various experimental
    tests of Einstein’s Equivalence Principle (universality of free fall, constancy
    of the constants,. . . ).

  13. Ugh, this one in particular, obfusvated on purpose so it sounds like they know what they are talking about, to help them get funding, so they get paid.

    A 5th force, or 2nd weak force is not going to have anything to do with electromagnetism, probably a trillion times weaker than the electromagnetic force, and there are too many holes in string theory to put it all together now.

    At best they might find something on this or a related experiment that might take another 200 years to mean something
  14. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    General Relativity contradicts itself with the Simultaneity Paradox and, as far as I'm concerned, they might as well be checking to make sure every back has a front.
  15. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

  16. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Energy is interchangeable with information,
    Meaning gravity and inertia are interchangeable,
    With the speed of light equaling the speed of darkness.
    The Unruh Effect sets even more stringent limits,
    And will soon be measured in synchrotrons.
    Time is the issue, rather than the gravity,
    For time is the fire within which we burn,
    The ice within which all our memories freeze,
    And where Relativity falls apart,
    Producing the Simultaneity Paradox.
  17. egger

    egger Member

    An article about experimentally probing for EEP violations using an interferometry instrument onboard the ISS.

    Quantum Test of the Equivalence Principle and Space-Time aboard the International Space Station
    Jason Williams, Sheng-Wey Chiow, Holger Mueller, Nan Yu
    Article (PDF Available) in New Journal of Physics 18(2) · October 2015


    1. Introduction

    Gravity is the least-tested force of nature. For example, even the best solar system tests (e.g., the Shapiro time delay to Cassini) reach 10−5 sensitivity in the parameterized post-Newtonian (PPN) formalism [1], while the theory of quantum electrodynamics has some of its predictions confirmed at the part-per-billion level. Further, some predicted effects, such as gravitational waves, are yet to be observed directly. The lack of a quantum theory of gravity and the unexplained origins of dark matter and dark energy hint that the current understanding of gravity may not be complete. Testing the equivalence principle (EP) is one of the key methods for probing gravity physics. Without the EP, general relativity cannot be correct. However, the EP is (or may be) violated in many theories that attempt to join gravity with the standard model of particle physics (e.g., string theory, loop quantum gravity, higher dimensions, brane worlds) [2–5]. Tests of the EP are also sensitive to new physics, e.g., dilatons or moduli [6]. Such tests may thus be one of the best chances to detect new physics beyond the standardmodel.

    2.1. Test of the equivalence principle

    While everybody can feel the force of gravity, it is a stranger among the four forces known in physics. For one, it accelerates all objects in the same way, regardless of, e.g., their structure, mass, charge, or composition. This observation, known as the weak equivalence principle (WEP)or universality of free fall (UFF), has been extended to the Einstein equivalence principle, which states that gravity is locally equivalent to the effects of being in an accelerated frame of reference for any experiment. ‘Equivalence’here means that there is no experiment that can tell the two apart and ‘locally’means that the statement is restricted to sufficiently small regions of spacetime, such that gravity gradients are negligible.

    The validity of the equivalence principle is deeply ingrained in the current gravitational theory; without it, general relativity could not be true [31]. Experimental tests of Lorentz invariance [32], local position invariance [33], and the weak equivalence principle [34] have shown that nature adheres closely to this principle. But itoesn’t have to be so. Modern theories to unify gravity and quantum mechanics operate at energy scales so high that direct experiments are impossible. Violations of the equivalence principle, which can be parameterized by the standard model extension (SME)[35–37], are among the most promising candidates for probing Planck-scale physics at low energy [5,38–40]. For a review of the science motivations of next-generation, ultra-high precision equivalence principle tests and their expected implications for the foundations of contemporary gravitational theories, refer to [2,6,25] and references therein."
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  18. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Without accounting for the Simultaneity Paradox, the Strong Equivalency will always remain suspect. Without account for the mathematics of Relativity being the same as those for thermodynamics, the theory becomes even more suspect. The growing implication is that Equivalency and Indeterminacy must be reconciled in the same theory that expresses yin-yang dynamics.
  19. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    I didn't think about the simultaneous paradox! :kissing:
  20. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The one thing that appears to be the obvious solution to reconciling all these theories, is to assume time is paradoxical.

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