Natural Predators

Along with my thoughts on evil and the like I have received many interesting views. So therefore I have decided to do a post on predation. Everything in the world has a predator or something that hunts it on a regular basis except humans. I personally think we have predators. I think serial killers and people with murderous intent are born as a type of natural population control. Since with our intelligence and ingenuity we have gained the ability to out maneuver most animals and over come them. As we evolved and became smarter I believe our predators had to change with us and become a part of us so things would even itself out in the end. I think the main difference between the majority and predators is the amount of instinct we run off of. Because it is in our nature to kill most of us just ignore it. Hence why we have always had war. What are your views on it?

 

Yes, man's predators can be other man...disease, viruses....

This is a slippery slope, as i never like to give murderers excuses.....or say they were born to help keep the population in control.....I am not giving these kinds of people a free card......
Yes, it is true, that when tests are run on overcrowded mice populations......fighting, disease and other things occur when there is not an overpopulation for limited resources......I think the same analogy can be made for mankind and its population problem.....but I don't find this an excuse for mankind.

and not all other animals are just programmed....Dolphins, for example, make the choice to help humans in distress......dogs can be loyal companions and grieve their owners, as do elephants grieve their dead longer than we do at times......so there is empathy in the animal kingdom.....

 

Also, I am sure, you have read about or heard about the neuroscience that is being conducted on serial killer brains....and it seems some part of some serial killer's brain is smaller than a normal person's....the part that feels empathy,and cares about right from wrong, I guess. I am not a neuro scientist......so that is what i meant by a "sick" brain in the other post.

 

But we can never truly know if dolphins help people according to trainers dolphins when they have babies they help push them to the surface so they don't drown. What if they are just mistaking humans for dolphins, and we are just tacking human empathy to what they are doing. Dogs have been programmed and bred by humans for many years for specific reasons. One of which is to be loyal without questions. Maybe elephants do grieve but how do we know they grieve in the same way as us. Maybe they grieve because there is one less pack member in their herd to protect and watch for them.

As for killers, I'm not giving them excuses, but in a lot of cases they are products of their environment. In college my psychology thesis was on serial killers. I even applied for rights to use fbi medical files and profiles in it. They are anomalies in our society without a purpose if you believe most people but I think they have a purpose most of us doesn't want to accept. Just like I also think we should utilize them in our military unsteady of sending in stable people to experience atrocities and become unstable. Why not utilize their nature to our advantage? I guarantee they wont ask to many question when killing.

 

Sure pour out the prisons of the murderers onto the beattlefields.....but what would stop them from killing someone on their own team?

Also, after living with 5 dogs here.....I see on an every day level....their essences go beyond just learned behaviors....they have soul, for lack of a better word......and feel things like we do on emotional levels......this is proven to me every day, and with my cats, as well......

 

If they were murders killing murders do you think most would care if they killed each other as long as the job got done? If you were sending them to battle their urges would be met and you could keep an eye on them in facilities aka military bases. With medical teams. It could also ease their compulsion to kill innocents per say.

As for dogs I'm not sure I didn't own a dog that I was truly close to. My closest animal companion was a wolf named Anubis. But with wolves it's a whole different set of etiquettes than a house dog. You have to maintain your dominance while you show love to them if they don't accept you as alpha it could be bad for you. Fortunately my wolf pack accepted me. Maybe its because I would eat and mouth play with them, sleep with them, and act like them. You have to know where you stand with them at all times.

 

They would need the discipline to function as a team. It would backfire if they attack their own men or allies without remorse. They would also need courage. Most serial killers seem to attack the weak and vulnerable. I could see them running scared as soon as a bullet flies at them. It is like asking the school yard bully to join a boxing gym. They want someone who doesn't fight back not someone who will.

 

Viruses and bacteria seem to find us quite tasty.

 

I would disagree with you on the discipline. A lot of killers show discipline, dedication, and patience when it comes to their kills. I would say attacking the weak and vulnerable is only done by some killers. I think they could work well in small structures units especially on missions that are unsavory persay like eliminating children. I wouldn't say they are scared either a lot of killers fall into the socio/psychopath groups and they are well know for not showing any true emotions. I would say sociopaths could be used for smaller recon missions, and psychopaths for suicide missions. Like I said as for killing their own allies I don't think they would if it lowered their chances of survival because a lot of them are very self centered. When I say utilize them I mean don't put civilians or normal military with them or if you do choose a select few.

 

Viruses and bacteria do not hunt or think for themselves they just do the function they were designed for an occasionally evolve to rise from the occasion.

 

Well luckily i've never been in war but i'm pretty sure there is a lot more to it than just being an efficient killer. And i'm pretty sure there is a really good reason why the military won't allow a mentally unstable person to enter. There is a lot more team work, strategic planning, intelligence, and following orders that needs to be considered. And i bet the discipline it takes to kill a helpless victim is completely different from the discipline it takes to defend a nation.

Really??? I would say most, if not all.

And because of their self centeredness, i'm pretty sure they'll be more than willing to accept bribery, flee, betray their country, avoid following orders, all for their own personal gain.



Off to bed, good night.

 

Oddly enough, there's an interesting pattern of serial killers serving in the military but in exclusively non-combat roles, Usually as radio operators and mechanics. These include Leonard Lake and Charles Ng, Dean Corrl, Dennis Rader, Anthony Sowell, Doug Clark, Roy Norris, Danny Rolling, Gary Ridgeway, Dennis niellson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Andrei Chikatilo and Randy Kraft. It leads you to wonder whether there's something about serving in the military but not seeing combat that leads to a kind of frustration that may have contributed to their crimes. Certainly I think it could be argued that in many cases these kinds of crimes are the result of a complete inability to interact with the society around you in a meaningful way. In the military the intense structure of everyday life provides some comfort, but once discharged, they often find themselves listless and lacking structure and steady pay. Many become drifters, and harbour intense frustration and jealousy of those around them with stable lifestyles.

I can't see any of them being particularly useful as combat troops.

There's also a correlation between serial killers and head trauma, particularly damage to the frontal cortex which affects aggression and impulse control.

I don't believe that Serial killers and murderers evolved in order to keep our population in check. I don't think evolution works like that, it only "cares" about the ability of the individual to pass on genetic material, not the fate of the species as a whole.

 

There aren't enough of them to have any chance of impacting the general population level. Even mass killers like Hitler made only a tiny dent in the numbers of humans.

 

I have to make a point Hitler wasn't a murder he was a sociopath with influence. He didn't kill he used his prowess to have it done for him. He almost wiped out an entire race. I'd say that is quite a lot.

For you darkness sociopaths are efficient tacticians, and typically super intelligent. They have the amazing ability to be a chameleon amongst the general population hence why they are so hard to catch.
Their intelligence is grade A and killing is defending the nations we don't send our soildiers in to hold hands with the enemy. I wouldn't say all victims are helpless just easily manipulated and swayed. I can see if you were to mean children or frail old people. But they don't need helpless victims most sociopaths are doctors, police, ex military, psychiatrist, psychological profilers. No their victims are not helpless they are just more intellectual then their prey. They might be willing to take bribes but in the end it's not money, or power that is their ultimate goal. It's killing and if we were the only country offering legalized killing they would be a lot less likely to betray us.

I agree regular combat troops wouldn't be for them that's why I suggested recon or suicide missions. The shit people don't want to deal with.

I would say for murders you are right when it comes to aggression and impulsiveness. But the p/s paths function differently. Maybe some murders due turn out to be because of dead end jobs and societal pressures. But many serials are more methodical than that. They don't need reasons to feel like that the just do.


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7 billion minus 6 million makes virtually no difference in the numbers game.

 

As far as I remember, serial murderers usually fall into one of two categories, in terms of "reasons":

The process killer: The process killer kills because he enjoys the process of killing. Most often he/she receives sexual pleasure from rape, torture, murder or all three (and sometimes only these things result in sexual gratification for them). These killers are usually caught because their actions, although methodically planned in many cases, are nonetheless impulsive. Killers in this category would include Ted Bundy, Fred and Rose West, Andrei Chikatilo, Dennis Rader, John Wayne Gacy and Richard Ramirez.

The product killer: The product killer kills because he enjoys the results of killing. Sometimes this means money or power, as in the case of HH Holmes and Harold Shipman, and sometimes because of morbid/sexual fascination with dead bodies which can only be acquired by murder, as in the cases of Dennis Nilson, Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein.

There are other reasons as well which are related to these. for example, there are displacement killers like Ed Kemper who took out frustrations with his mother on others because he was too afraid to attack her himself.

In terms of pure psycho/sociopath killers who are methodical in their approach, the best example may be Richard Kuklinski.

Almost always what makes a serial killer is a mix of physical and/or sexual abuse as a child combined with mental conditions such as bipolar and antisocial personality disorders, sociopathy, psychopathy and most often particularly violent paraphillias. In many cases, trauma to the head resulting in damage to the frontal lobes is common as well. this is true of Fred West and Henry Lee Lucas and a whole bunch of others.

That's my understanding, anyway.


As for harnessing the powers of people like that for our own ends? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. to a certain extent we already do harness the powers of psychopaths by creating structures within businesses and industries that allow people who are driven by ambition and have little to no regard for others to rise to the top. But seeking out those people and giving them guns? doesn't sound like a great idea to me. They may not experience fear as we would understand it, but they are motivated entirely by self interest, so how would you convince them to risk their lives?

 

humans don't do much more, we just have more processing power to contemplate it, but we are still governed by very basic functions in the same manner as a virus or bacteria.
if nature/evolution were to devise some means of human population control, it will most likely be in the form of a virus ...or Godzilla.

 

I'm not sure how this is different from any other predator.

All predators were designed (well, evolved) to hunt for the purpose of finding food for self preservation. The thought process in a complex multi celled organism is certainly different than a single celled bacteria with no real thought process but instinctually the drive to find prey is exactly the same.

As a side note, humans are the only animal i can think of that hunts for fun. Can anyone else think of another?

But as far as population control, I think our predators, bacteria and viruses, do a better job at population control than serial killers.

 

Charlie Manson was a master manipulator and had others do the killing for him....could even be more of a dangerous psychopath type.....

I do not advocate war, anyway, so what to do with these people is a moot conversation to me and purely for speculation.....You could always use them as medical experiments to benefit mankind.

 

Manson was pretty small fry when it comes to dangerous cult leaders. When Shoko Asahara's Aum Shinrikyo cult compounds were raided, they found a military attack helicopter, an AK 47 factory, Anthrax and ebola production, chemicals to produce enough sarin gas to kill 4 million people, a vault full of millions of US dollars and gold bullion and a factory for creating acid and methamphetamine. All this in a warehouse behind a huge gold statue of Shiva the Destroyer. They were trying to get enriched uranium for nuclear weapons at the time. They almost certainly had contacts in the police and military. If they had had more time to prepare (they were desperate to cause a distraction for the Tokyo police before their compound was raided) they could have created 100% pure sarin gas for the subway attacks, killing thousands, instead of the 11 they managed.

Shoko Asahara is an interesting figure. He was born partially sighted and sent to a school for the blind. Being the only kid there with any vision at all, he quickly took control of his class. It is probably this early taste of power that caused him to form the cult. In the kingdom of the blind