My compromise for gun control

We still arguing over a non legit, not even real idea?

 

There haven't been any school shootings in my area. Please don't make presumptions.

 

For comparison there have 5 within 30 minutes of my childhood home. Some of these only killed a few people which is not "mass" but a person brought a gun to a public space and killed people in every case.

2 of the rival schools for my high school have had a shooting. Something has to change.

 

My best friend (46 years old) married , 2 kids, boy and girl. He's never owned or shot a firearm before, asked me yesterday, the best gun to buy for home defense. He wants his whole family to learn to use the firearm effectively.

I told him the pistol made in Austria 9mm

He wants it to stop a possible threat.
He's preparing for possible civil unrest.
Good for him.

He's gonna also purchase a 35 round extended magazine and under muzzle Surefire light. I'll be installing a lighter trigger pull spring for free.

Im glad that the military/law enforcement grade pistol and upgrades are readily available for him to purchase.

 

I'm all for citizens exercising their right to self defense. But...there are some questions that I would ask first, if I had been you.

First...does he have *any* experience *at all* with firearms? Has he ever fired a gun? A handgun? A semi-automatic? Has he ever received any formal training? Does he know the rules of safe gun handling?

Second...he says he wants all members of his family to learn to use the firearm, which is a good idea. But...are they all onboard with this? Have they ever fired a firearm before, a handgun, a semi-automatic? Have they received formal training, and do they know the rules of safe gun handling?

So...seeing that you say that he has never owned or shot any firearm before, he should definitely consider seeking professional training, at least for himself. *If* he sincerely believes that he is capable, once receiving training, he *might* be able to instruct the rest of his family. Husband's teaching wives to operate a gun...often does not work out the best. I'm a certified NRA Instructor, and most instructors don't even want husbands and wives in the same class...and if that's unavoidable, we always try to keep them as far away from each other as possible. That's to avoid posturing, embarrassment, expectations and "assisting". If he can't afford, or doesn't prefer, to receive professional training...he should try to find a friend who is *very* knowledgeable...not just about firearms, but about the specifics of their operation, and is capable of imparting that knowledge in an effective manner. If I lived close to you...I would do it for free.

So, for a group of people who have never handled a firearm before...I generally would *not* advise the Austrian pistol which you mentioned. To be clear...I'm a fan of that pistol, and I own about half a dozen of them. It's a great choice...for experienced shooters, but not so much for novices. It has no manual safety (it has automatic internal safeties, and a safety on the face of the trigger), and is very unforgiving of improper handling. Further, if he *does* follow your advice and buys that pistol...please do *NOT* lighten the trigger pull! The factory trigger is best for a novice shooter! Also, I would stick with the standard 15 or 17 round magazines (depending on which model is selected) that are standard to that pistol. I'm aware there are higher capacity mags, made by the manufacturer (I have quite a few, they are 33 round, not 35), but it is rather ungainly sticking out the bottom of the pistol, and the gun will balance and handle better, especially for novice shooters, with the standard magazine. Also...he (or whomever pulls the trigger) will ultimately be responsible for *every single round* that is discharged...I would rather not encourage them to indiscriminately spray rounds everywhere...just because they have a very large magazine.

In fact, I would not recommend a semi-automatic pistol, at all. For the price of that semi-auto...he could practically buy 2 decent used revolvers. Two firearms would obviously give them greater odds and flexibility.

But, even that is jumping ahead, a bit. How old are the children? Is the wife physically capable of operating the slide on a semi-auto pistol? Can his kids operate a semi-auto? It requires more than just strength...it requires familiarity, and confidence. Also, the grips on those pistols do not fit just everyone's hands. Each potential user of the gun should be checked, to see if their hand can comfortably grasp the pistol, reach the trigger correctly, and reach all of the controls. Also...can they manage the recoil? Can the children operate the slide? Can they do so under stress, to perform a malfunction clearance drill?

This is another good rationale for 2 guns...if his preferred size of grip is radically different than hers. They could each have the gun which they find most comfortable.

Also...has he considered storage of the firearm? Where will the gun be kept? How will it be kept safe, from theft, and from possible unwanted attention from visitors (friends of his, or of his kids), and still be readily accessible for use as a defensive weapon, should the need arise?

Is he fully aware of all of the ramifications of having a firearm for self defense? Can he actually shoot another human being, even if that person is a potential threat to him or his family? Is he certain? (I know...it's not possible to be 100% certain until the moment actually arrives.) Even if he feels certain...can his wife shoot someone? Can his kids? Because...if someone lacks conviction...there's a good chance they will have the gun taken away from them.

Other considerations...penetration/over penetration of projectiles. Lines of fire. Target identification (on more than one sad occasion...a parent has shot their own child, sneaking back into the house, late at night). Absolutely knowing when to shoot, and when not to. Being prepared for the possible legal ramifications...going to jail, going to trial, paying legal costs, being sued in civil court.

Is concealed carry a possibility where he lives? If possible, would he consider doing that? If so, that will affect his choices of firearm. He definitely won't be using that 33 round magazine to carry concealed. If concealed carry, or any kind of carry outside of the home, is not a possibility...then a shotgun, or pistol caliber carbine, or even an AR-15, might be an even better choice than a pistol. Learning to effectively use a pistol, particularly under stress...is infinitely more difficult than TV or movies would lead one to believe.

Anyway...this is only a partial list of considerations. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.

 

Thank you for correcting me on magazine capacity Bullz. It slipped my memory.

I let my friend also know about getting a wall safe.
He liked that idea as well.

You're awesome Bullz.
Thanks for your post.

I wouldn'tve gotten any of this rationale from Balz, whom needs a pair of Balz.

 

But it's not as effective for whiping your ass with

 

You're very welcome. Again...if I can be of any assistance, feel free to ask.

 

Tell that to the thousands of Americans who die each year from gun violence.

 

Yes, and gasoline is just "burny" water! Tell *that* to the thousands of people who die in car accidents each year!

And alcohol is just "happy" water...tell *that* to the thousands of people who die in drunk driving accidents, or other victims of alcoholism!

 

Standing in the gun store line..
yes I did that.. nothing but to get some 3030 shells.
things overheads...
"im going to shoot the virus"
"I want a AK47, an AR15, a shotgun, a pistol and I want this and I " omfg this guy..
"peduto is taking our guns"
"wolf is taking our guns"
"niggers"
what the fuck?

 

Gunpowder is just angry sand.

 

Dying from old age is just wimpy genes.

 

The first use of gunpowder was to make fireworks.

But you guys do realise a shell needs to be forged and a hammer for that gunpowder to work, right? Or do you think you just light gunpowder and a bullet comes out lol.

Ja, that must be it lol.

 

Stop using facts and logic! They (the anti-gun crowd) don't want to hear that! It's all about feelings, emotion, fear, hysteria!

Haven't you heard? "Assault guns" just jump up, by themselves, and fire off hundreds of rounds from their "30 caliber hundred shot magazine clips"...or whatever stupidity that guy uttered. And, the ammunition from those same "Assault guns" can kill people from across the room...even without being fired, they don't even need a firearm. A single cartridge (or boolit, to the antis) is a weapon of mass destruction.

 

My compromise was in moving to Arizona

 

My compromise is coughing on people with my coronavirus.

 

Mac

I agree as long as they follow the rules as stated to try and minimise the possibility of their guns falling into the wrong hands, but what I’m getting at is the deeper question of why they feel so afraid that they feel they need such a lethal weapon?

I mean most handguns are owned by people that get them for ‘self-protection’ not for collecting, or hunting or competition shooting.

I mean what is it about US society that makes them so afraid – as I’ve stated many times in the past the thing is that such gun control regulations would probably not be so needed if Americans didn’t feel they needed to have guns in such great numbers.

Exactly why is that - why so much fear?

I mean as already explained easy access to guns in the US doesn’t make people safer it just results in far more people been injured or killed with a firearm

 

Mac

But as already looked at the Swiss system is based on a militia/conscription model that you have already rejected, (also a welfare/social system vastly diffrent that the oje in the US) you cannot have the model and not have the model at the same time.