My compromise for gun control

Lion

That does not answer the question - why do you think criminals don’t have easier access to guns in the US than in places with strickter gun control regulations?

LOL but it has been covered MATE have you read the thread?

LOL you can’t remember something that had only been posted just 2 hours before?

FUCKING COVERED in this thread and a million other places – read the thread

 

Switzerland

Thing is that Switzerland has mandatory military service, so yes a lot of people get training in the use of firearms, it’s a militia system.

Therefore there are checks for irresponsibility, criminal behaviour and mental fitness, I believe some 20% of people are rejected per year.

It is very likely these same people would also be rejected from gun ownership because the Swiss also has extensive gun control measures (need for licence, register of guns, background check etc) Also automatic weapons are banned.

Under this militia system, many militiamen keep their issued personal weapon at their home - but only for military purposes - which I believe boosts the level of supposed ‘gun ownership’ in the country.

Also a militiaman has to keep themselves trained as part of the contract so often have a gun just for that – so if there was no military service it is likely the rate of gun ownership would fall.

Also the Swiss have a universal healthcare system, a low poverty level, a generous welfare system and a penal system based on rehabilitation (Prison pop Switzerland 81 per 100000 US 655 per population). As I’ve discussed in the past these are all factors.

I’ve also been to the country and meet many Swiss people and they are very civic minded and believe in the benefits of government they also have a very good and effective police force.

So does that make your point?

It seems to me that the Swiss have quite strong gun control measure and that the access to guns it in large part due to military militia system.

So are you suggesting that the US stops having a standing army and adopts the conscription for all adult males?


POST 243 - posted Feb 7th

 

I never said that Read the thread mate I was refering to the fact that criminals in the US have doesn't have easier access to gun than regular citizens at least on paper.

YES

Sorry I actually have short term memorry problems due to brain damage, I do appologize for that, if I could have avoided that I would but unfortunatley I am not capable of reversing time

 

Cars and guns

As I said the example with the regulations around cars was not meant to be a direct comparison it was just an example of how societies can and should deal with certain risks. Cars were not designed as weapons they were created as means of transport but they can be dangerous so we try to mitigate the possibilities of them causing harm.

Firearms were specifically designed to be weapons that injure and kill why wouldn’t a society create regulations to mitigate the possibilities of them causing harm?

POST 246 also posted Feb 7th

 

They actually have the weakest gun control messueres within europe.
You could argue that Ukraine has a weaker gun control since most of their gun control is only on paper to please the EU but the ukranian situation is a bit of a weired thing

 

Lion

And I’m sorry to hear that but the thing is that I haven’t, which is going to make this discussion difficult for both of us.

 

Switzerland is perceived to have one of the more accepting cultures toward guns in Europe. Laws let militia members in the country (where all able-bodied men are required to serve in the military, except for conscientious objectors) keep their issued personal weapons in their homes, and Swiss statutes and traditions respect the right to bear arms.

But the country's restrictions are still somewhat more stringent than the US.

For one, automatic weapons are outright banned for civilians.

Private gun ownership generally requires a license, for which an applicant "must be at least 18 years of age, may not have been placed under guardianship, may not give cause for suspicion that he would endanger himself or others with the weapon, and may not have a criminal record with a conviction for a violent crime or of several convictions for nonviolent crimes," according to the Library of Congress's review of Swiss gun laws. The license is valid for six to nine months, and it's usually valid only for one weapon.

But rifles and semiautomatic long arms used by recreational hunters are exempt from licensing requirements.

The licensing requirement also only applies to dealers, with an exemption for private sellers. Still, the law requires private sellers to verify the identity and age of the buyer by checking an official identification document, and private sellers must have no reason to believe the buyer has been or should be disqualified from firearm ownership — requirements that aren't necessary for private gun sales under US federal law.

For anyone to carry a gun for defensive purposes, the licensing process requires the applicant to demonstrate the need to protect himself or others and pass an exam. But no carrying license is required for transporting an unloaded weapon for "legitimate purposes" like hunting and traveling to a shooting range, as long as the ammo is kept separate from the weapon. In comparison, the license to carry is a requirement that only exists in a minority of US states.

In recent years, Switzerland has reformed its gun laws for militia members after several incidents in which militia members killed themselves or others with their issued weapons. In 2010, for instance, rules were amended to let militia members voluntarily deposit their guns in an armory. And if police, courts, prosecutors, or a military commandant finds danger of abuse or improper handling or maintenance of a militia member's personal weapon, it can be confiscated — with the possibility of further punishments, including fines and imprisonment.

Switzerland's restrictions show that a country can have a culture that is broadly more receptive to the idea of gun ownership while maintaining some restrictions that make firearms less accessible to potentially dangerous people and improve public safety. But it's perhaps no coincidence that the country is second only to America among developed nations in terms of firearm homicide deaths — although the Swiss rate is still four times lower than the US's rate.

How gun control works in America, compared with 4 other rich countries

 

I am honestly not sure about what would make the most difficult discussion, though I do suppose that if we both had short term memorrry loss it would quickly get derailed and we'dd forget why we had the discussion.
And btw you don't have to be sorry it wasn't you who caused it, that was an IED and I feel fairly confident that you didn't make nor place it

 

Fair enough on that point. Competition shooters and people living in remote areas are still valid reasons to procure large amounts of ammo if you're looking for valid reasons

My point is, if we're to compare the reasoning behind gun licenses, you have to be more specific because there are countries that operate gun licensing similar to how the US operate driver's licenses. And they don't seem to suffer a greater gun violence rate than countries that have a gun purchase limit.

 

But the accountant or dentist living in the suburbs doesn't strike me as a criminal nor irresponsible. If we have a system in place that practically guarantee that only the law abiding and responsible can buy firearms in the first place, I don't see why we should restrict carrying a firearm only to those that are at high risk.

I would like to point out that while most Americans don't carry or own a firearm, most Americans do believe that having a concealed weapon makes one safer.

Majority Say More Concealed Weapons Would Make U.S. Safer


I can only speculate why only a third of Americans own a firearm of any kind while a little over half believes that concealed weapons make one safer. But if I had to guess, it would probably have something to do with the initial cost, regulations, and simple uncharted territory surrounding firearm ownership that would have something to do with it

I think we simply must agree to disagree on this point. You come from a culture where firearm ownership is rare and reserved for hunting and target practice. I come from a culture where in some cases, NOT having a firearm for protection is frowned upon regardless of what background you come from.

And good cause can simply mean "not breaking the law" in some countries.

Then let's make the process as affordable as possible to the average person.

 

Ok, I didn't see that initially.

 

I think it's far too excessive. I believe if we're going to adopt a foreign model, I think the Switzerland model with some changes added is a better route.

 

It's easier to get an AR-15 right now than it is to get some toilet paper..

 

Pretty much...

 

And yet guns have killed more Americans than coronavirus has. It's weird, right? Keep supporting the 2nd amendment while also living like an extra from the movie Outbreak. Holy balls this is really weird

 

It's that easy that these weapons get into the wrong hands and cause trouble.

 

or a test for coronavirus...lol.

 

He was being facetious. Though right now...since many shelves are empty of TP, it may be easier to *locate* an AR-15 that's for sale. But rest assured...more is required to purchase the gun, than the TP.

 

Look at the shootings at all the schools in your area.
Too many people getting their hands on guns for the wrong reasons.

 

We need to keep toilet paper out of the wrong hands!