My compromise for gun control

I'm simply pointing out that stricter gun control does work

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say that he shouldn't have access to firearms yet, however I think it might be grounds for professionals to look into it.

 

Kaboom Kabooms pew pew bang bang bang pow..

 

Granddaddy was a world war 2 vet
And I found his Panzerschrek
In the basement with a bag of mortars
Fuck yeah! I'm done taking orders
Dragged it outside and tried it out
Dropped a shell in and fired it out
Across the street into the neighbours kitchen
And now half of they house is missin!
Fuck yeah!
I grabbed some rockets
Beer truck in the scope I locked it
Blew the wheels off and flipped it twice
I'm standin' here grinnin' this bazookas nice

And I'm dancing!
She's dancingggg
With a god damn BAZOOKA!
Bazooka Irmi!

I sent a hot one right through the doors
And left em mangled on a pile of boards
I swear my shoulder is loving the shot!
*SCREEEEEECH KAPOWWWW!*
Fucked up a HR and block
I blow new cop cars into stock yards
Yeah this is a bazooka you ain't hard
I see the SWAT team hiding in the limousine
*SCREEEEEECH BOOOOOM!*
And now they're smitherines
Pulling out my hair screaming and laughing
Getting shot at and shootin' back and
Terrorizing, paralysing, Bazooka Irmi
Electrifying!

And I'm dancing!
She's dancingggg
With a god damn BAZOOKA!
Bazooka Irmi!

Raid vans? Pff you gotta be kidding
I'll take out a tank I ain't bullshitting
Call me the straight up creHATER
Drop you like an elevator, pig hater
I'll blow your fire truck smooth in half
All I can do is laugh
Who the fuck are you all demanding?
I'll leave fucken ditch where you standing
FOX News, turn it up loud
I'mma blow the fired into a mushroom cloud!
So tune in before I get shot
Bazooka Irmi blowing up the spot!

And I'm dancing!
She's dancingggg
With a god damn BAZOOKA!
Bazooka Irmi!

 

Mac

So again what in the list of gun control proposals are you objecting to?

Which measures have been tried and shown not to work? Is it just the buyback scheme?

LOL my definition of insanity is not trying everything you can when people are dying daily.

So are you saying that the only thing on the list of gun control measures listed above that you object to is the buyback scheme?

 

Mac

And as I hope I’ve made clear this approach seems totally inadequate to the task which is to try and lessen the likelihood of guns falling into the hands of the criminal or irresponsible, basically stopping guns from getting into the wrong hands.

So it’s not just about been able to buy a gun and own one it is also about been responsible for it afterward.

As I’ve mentioned already the majority of guns that get into the hands of criminals or the irresponsible are

-Through a gun been stolen (either by the criminal or been sold on after been stolen by that crininal to another criminal)

-By straw purchase – where someone that can buy a gun gets one for someone that can’t (by gift or through sale)

-Illegal gun transactions, where criminals get guns from legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers.

Thousands of guns are reported stolen or lost each year and there are probably thousands more that are not reported (in 2016 -18,394 lost or stolen firearms were reported from federal firearms licensees alone)

As you can see from the list above of gun control proposals ideas have been put forward to address these concerns, such as mandating gun safes/locks, the proper tracking of guns and regular checks on gun ownership etc.

Not sure what article you are talking about?

Are you saying you think the FBI and ATF are incorrect when they say this is how criminals get hold of guns?

Here is an interesting study

Whose guns are stolen? The epidemiology of Gun theft victim

Here are some extracts -

Of 1,604 gun-owning respondents, 2.4% (95% CI 1.6,3.6) reported that one or more guns had been stolen, with a mean number of guns stolen per theft of 1.5 (95% CI 1.0,2.0]. Risk factors for having a gun stolen were owning 6 or more guns, owning guns for protection, carrying a gun in the past month, storing guns unsafely, and living in the South region of the United States. The South accounts for 37% of US households, 43% of gun owners, and two-thirds of all gun thefts.

We estimate that there are approximately 250,000 gun theft incidents per year, with about 380,000 guns stolen. We find that certain types of gun owners-who own many guns, who carry guns, and who do not store guns safely-are at higher risk to have their guns stolen. Tracing data show that states in the South are exporters of crime guns used in other states. Our survey results find that the majority of guns stolen in the US come from the South.

Virtually every gun in the United States begins as a legal gun, manufactured legally and initially sold by a federally licensed gun dealer to an individual who passes a federal background check. However, many people with known anger, violence and/or alcohol problems can pass a federal background check (Swanson et al. 2015) and many people who cannot pass a background check still have easy access to firearms. The movement of guns to individuals who cannot pass a background check occurs via various mechanisms, including straw purchases, gifts, sales without a background check (Miller et al. 2017), and gun thefts.

Estimates over the past two decades suggest that 200,000 to 500,000 guns are stolen each year in the United States. Such estimates have come from several sources, including the National Crime Victimization Surveys (Langton 2012), police reports of stolen guns (DoJ 2012) and surveys of gun owners (Cook and Ludwig 1996).

Whose guns are stolen? The epidemiology of Gun theft victims

 

Shoe

So you have your gun to fight such tyranny so what are you going to do with the gun – shoot the police officer or the teachers at the school?

In what way does having a gun stop this from happening?

 

More than half of gun owners do not safely store all their guns… The survey, believed to be the first nationally representative sample in 15 years to examine gun storage practices in U.S. households, found that 54 percent of gun owners reported not storing all their guns safely.

Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Think about that if you are someone that should not have a gun but you want one and you know of someone that has a gun you know you have a 1 in 2 chance that if you break into the house of the gun owner when they are not there you are likely to easily walk away with a gun.

Each year hundreds of thousands of guns are reported stolen I mean in 2016 alone, more than 237,000 guns were reported stolen but as said many guns that are lost or stolen are not reported so that number could be a lot higher.

The problem say the ATF is negligence on the part of many gun owners as criminals are able to rob legal owners of their guns because their weapons are simply not secured in safes or lock boxes.

 

The buy back program, and limiting ammo possession.

So by your own statement, my original proposals are just as good as yours. After all, we're trying everything and anything to prevent people from dying.

That, and the ammo limit.

 

Work? In what way does it work? I ask in all seriousness since most of the crooks with guns aren't following any gun control initiatives at all. So I am curious to know what the measure is of this actually "working".

 

Countries of 140 million are seeing fewer than 10 gun deaths a year.
Work

 

say that with a gaping hole in your gut, John Paul Jones.

 

Right, because all countries are the same.

Most of them are older and have had centuries to develop the cultural norms that lead to a cooperative society. The US is a composite of the world's people. So many wildly different people that it's amazing the nation holds together. Consider the state of the entire hemisphere of the Americas before the 15th century. It was mired in the stone age with few domesticated animals, leastwise for easing the burden of travel.

By the time Washington took the oath of office the outermost colony was still about a days' horse ride from unexplored territory.

As with most technology, the genie is way out of the bottle regarding guns. The idea of eliminating them is a fantasy since you can't delete knowledge from people's minds. A lethal cannon can be made with PVC pipe and a quarter pound of match heads. Palestinian teenagers made rockets that went 8 miles using chicken shit and sugar for fuel. I never got a rocket beyond a few thousand feet using "better" fuel than they had. This stuff can't be walked back.

So let's dispense with the idea that guns can somehow be eradicated from existence. You'll have to prohibit machine shops, hardware stores and matches. Then there's saltpeter, compressed gas and charcoal. And don't forget sulfur, bovine leg bones and ignition coils.

Comparisons based only on a single dynamic are rarely worthy of conclusions. What else do these (so far unnamed) nations have in common that the US lacks? I'd wager diversity is a big one, specifically the lack of it. Italy only has half that population. What's their gun violence like?

 

you sure wrote a lot of conclusion...

Japan. Which was named.
Why quote me when you so clearly didnt read the post you're commenting on? That makes it hard to take you seriously.

 

Not in what I responded to. But otherwise, comparing Japan to the US is just plain weird. They are nowhere near as diverse. While diversity is certainly a strength, it's also an invitation to conflict. Americans are accustomed to that, which is part of the reason it persists. Another is that we routinely import more people from all of the world's nations. Some of them are at war with each other. Others are slogging it out for ethnic causes. America is a proving ground the rest of the world learns from.

 

You beleive this is the root cause of gun violence in America?
That bullshit claim requires multiple citations. If you're going to say something like "people who wanna kill people come to America to do so" you need to provide proof to back that up while simultaneously not proving that it's not America's lax gun laws that draws these bloodthirsty gunslingers to our shores.
You just made a claim that needs like 6 sources to verify it.

 

Gun control proposals

Here is an edit list I’ve published a few times before on the forum that was formed from a couple of lists me and MeAgain have presented at differing times.

*

Educate people about what the new legislation is about and would entail (Not taking away all guns, the goal is to reduce harm by limiting easy access to the criminal and irresponsible)

Reinforcing, enhancing, and mandating back ground checks for the purchase of a gun.

Immediate destruction of any weapon, ammunition, etc. used or acquired illegally.

Limiting the amount of legal ammunition that can be bought and retained.

Buyback programs - to get rid of or lower the number of midnight specials, assault weapons, etc.

All gun owners would need to pass a test of competence and responsibility to get a gun licence (part of which would be to pass a psychological evaluation)

A gun owner would need an up to date licence and insurance to carry on owning a gun (been found owning a gun without these will result in fine or and been banned from owning a gun).

Mandatory records of all sells or transfers of all firearms and immediate destruction of any that are discovered to be not recorded.

Any gun kept at home, place of work or in a motor vehicle would have to be held in a secure manner (eg safe or other secure locking system).

People that didn’t have an approved system would not be allowed to own a gun.

If a person loses or has their gun stolen, and it is shown that they did not show due diligence in securing their weapon they would be subject to a fine and/or banned from owning a gun.

Any guns would have to be presented for inspection 6 months after purchase then again one year after purchase and then every five years after that. Not presenting the gun would result in a fine losing the owner’s gun license.

If the gun has been lost or stolen and that has not been reported that would result in a heavy fine and/or custodial sentence.

*

These would be national laws the same through all the states and a Federal department would be set up to monitor them and make sure they are been enforced equally throughout the country.

The fines raised and a tax on firearms manufactures would be used to offset cost of these programmes.

*

These are just suggestions and if people think of improvements please post your ideas.

 

Mac

As I’ve explained you put forward some ‘compromises’ that I explained where not actually compromises since they only seem to favour the gun lobbyists and they didn’t seem that well thought through when examined and didn’t really stand up to scrutiny.

This is the whole reason why ideas have to be looked at and criticized so as to see if they do stand up.

I put up the list of gun control proposals up so that they could be scrutinised

Now the only things you oppose in that list are the buyback programme and the limiting of how much ammo someone can possess at any one time, can you give your reasons?

 

Panic

LOL but no-one has suggested that ‘fantasy’ nobody is talking of magically getting rid of all guns with a click of the fingers Thanos style.

This is about gun control not fantasy, trying to lessen the possibility of criminals or the irresponsible getting hold of a gun is not magic it is just a matter of bringing in regulations and laws that are aimed at doing that.

Why don’t you look at the list of gun proposals that have been presented and address them, rather than go off into fantasy land?

 

Sorry but why do the gun lobby keep repeating things that have already been covered and still have outstanding criticisms that have not yet been addressed.

It makes me think that they either have not grasp or knowledge of the issues or are being dishonest, and deceitful. As well as desperate, like the person in an argument who repeats things over and over more loudly and hysterically even though it has already been shown to be wanting the first time.

What we are getting just above are two old arguments

'Nothing can be done'

'Murderous Americans'

Neither stands up well to scrutiny

I’ve covered them at length many times I’ll try and give the short version this time.