My compromise for gun control

The problem with classical liberalism is that it is tied to ‘free market’ or laissez-faire economic ideas with its basis in Social Darwinist thinking.

Today you see these ideas been promoted by right wing libertarianism and neoliberalism.

Basically when these people talk of individual freedom, they mean the freedom to suffer even unto to death (in the 19th century the same idea resulted in millions of death in Ireland and India).

It is basically survival of the fittest within a free market, the problem been that there never has been and never could be a ‘free market’ so in actuality it usually results in advantages going to those already advantaged and with the disadvantaged getting exploited and suffering hardships.

In the real world that means tax cuts that benefit the already wealthy and cuts in public services and welfare that are meant to help those in lower economic classes.

The hardships these policies causes are what they mean by ‘individual freedom’ and the gains the wealthy received are extoled as the benefits of ‘opposing government supremacism’.

Basically what they call ‘classical liberalism’ is a wealth sponsored scam.

 

Mac

Are you reading these recent posts?

Let’s us take this one

Does that sound like a responsible person to own a gun?

This statement seems to hints at several mental problems, paranoia and psychopathic tendencies first come to mind, I mean the lack of empathy, the feeling that they are more important than others along with a persecution complex and feelings they will be enslaved.

I mean think about that even if gun control actually resulted in innocent people - his fellow citizens - not dying he still would be against it because he wants the ability to murder his political opponents if he so desired.

Should such people have access to guns and if so why?

 

In MHO stricter gun control won't lower the death toll from firearm related incidents. I believe that any person intent on using a firearm will still easily be able to get their hands on one.

 

In relation to gun ownership the right wing version of ‘liberalism’ means that the wealthy can hire and arm their own people to keep those that oppose them in order, just as the wealthy would hire armed strike breakers.

Also remember that even right wing libertarians want to still have the coercive bits of the state intact that are there to protect wealth, such as the courts, police and army. They just want these arms of the state to be much more under the control of wealth.

Again in earlier times of US history wealth sponsored politicians would often use at the behest of their sponsors the police and National Guard to break up strikers.

Again remember that gun ownership is not population wide in the US it is basically an armed right wing political faction.

 

Dax

LOL well in my humble opinion that is a useless statement as you don’t seem able to back it up. Please go and look at the gun control proposals and then let’s begin an honest discussion.

 

Oh my God. Are you actually saying, with a straight face, that Democrats do not manipulate the system through gerrymandering and voter suppression? You're on the wrong side of the street, here.

 

Did you hear Biden's wisdom-packed statement during the debates? Apparently 150 MILLION(!!!!) Americans have been killed by gun violence since 2007! How senile is this dude?

 

Bull

Sorry mate but have you anything of worth to contribute?

I’m against all gerrymandering or voter suppression but at the moment most of it is been conducted by the right.

 

Here is a humourous look at Gerrymandering

 

I've contributed at least as much factual evidence as have you.

 

Here is something about the film Slay the Dragon about gerrymandering

'It changes the way you see everything': the shocking film about gerrymandering

 

Bull

Naaah but have you though?

I mean you’ve dribbled a few words but there is nothing of substance.

 

Bull

Do you know about Redmap?

Known as Redmap, the plan – backed by such conservative big money stalwarts as the Koch brothers, the tobacco company Altria and Walmart – used the most sophisticated data tools available to quietly sort voters into districts statistically guaranteed to draw a Republican majority in state legislatures. It was successful, Daley says in the film, and it was the “biggest heist in modern American political history”.

More info here

REDMAP - Wikipedia

 

Bull

Anyway have you anything of substance to contribute on the gun issues raised in this thread?

 

To which I agreed that the US needs a better healthcare system and better rehabilitation programs.

I rejected it for two reasons. One being that the US citizens fought very hard to get rid of the draft and it would take something like an imminent invasion on our soil to reinstate the draft with overwhelming support. The other reason, which I may not have directly stated or implied, is even though Switzerland has a draft, not everyone who is a law abiding citizen gets drafted. Some are able to own firearms without first joining the military and thus able to obtain a firearm without a mental clearance.

On the other hand, my original compromise listed government funded mental evaluations to be able to purchase firearms and stated that if Switzerland can perform free mental evals as part of the process to be in the military, then the US can do something similar and offer free mental evals to prospective gun owners.

Simple, an unnecessary hurdle is a process or law that has little to no public safety benefit and only serves to restrict legal gun owners. Bans on certain types of firearms, registration, and arguably mental evaluations hasn't been shown to reduce gun violence.

 

Kaia, a first grader at the charter school, had a tantrum earlier in the day where she had kicked and punched three school employees, leading to her arrest on a charge of misdemeanor battery, according to her arrest report. However, by the time Turner and another officer approached Kaia to detain, cuff and arrest her, the girl had calmed down, the video shows.

The school staff member who had been reading to her told Kaia she had to go with the officers, and that her grandmother would pick her up later.

While walking with the officer to the car, Kaia continued to cry, “I don’t wanna go in a police car.”

The second officer, who has not been identified, replied, “You don’t want to? … You have to.”

“Please, give me a second chance,” the girl responded, still crying.

The officers put her in the backseat of the police SUV.

Turner then returned to the school’s office, reminding one employee that he would need a statement from her, and said she would likely get a subpoena. The woman agreed, though she said she was upset.

Body camera video shows 6-year-old Orlando girl arrested at school

You know you have a tyrannical government when they will kidnap your child at school using zip ties on a 6 year old then press misdemeanor charges to extort money of course from the parents.

This is Todays news not something old.

So turn in your guns people the government will take "care" of you and your family.

 

No, I'm saying that certain measures have already been tried, some even in the US, and have proven to not have any effect on gun violence. The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results. If a gun buy back program in the US has proven to have little to no effect on gun violence or even not have much compliance, why try it again and expect a different result?

 

If you don't think gun control works you're not paying attention
Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

 

If you have the data to support your proposals as opposed to what the article states, I'd like to see it.

 

I didn't said, gun control doesn't work. I said certain measures don't work, especially when talking about the US. Also, Japan is a unique case and practically bans firearm ownership altogether. Are you saying that we should implement laws similar to what Japan has?