Muslims in China forced to eat pork and drink alcohol

Discussion in 'Latest Hip News Stories' started by 6-eyed shaman, May 20, 2018.

  1. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    An injustice (like this one) that is deemed widely acceptable anywhere in the world, is a threat to justice EVERYWHERE in the world.

    People in this thread might not care about the injustices that take place in China or the rest of the non-western world. But at the very least they should at least acknowledge what is going on in those parts of the world. Even if there's little to nothing they can do about it. They should at the very least acknowledge how some foreign cultures perceive people with a worldview different from their own. What you and I may find disgusting and unacceptable, such as the treatment of Chinese Muslims, it should trouble you that many people are perfectly OK with this idea. And many tyrannical leaders throughout history have gotten inspiration from human rights atrocities such as this. For example, Hitler didn't mastermind the whole holocaust himself; he was inspired other tyrants in history to put it all together (like he was inspired by the real Young Turks and the Armenian genocide).

    And yes, I attack SJWs too. Because if they want to dispense "social justice" maybe they should do more to put focus at human rights violations in the 3rd world to Muslims, women, LGBT, and other marginalized groups.

    But rather than spreading awareness on how how being gay or transgender can get you thrown in prison or killed in many parts of the world, that women can be put in jail for being the victim of a rape in some parts of the world, that being a Muslim can get you thrown in prison in China.... They'd rather gripe about how and why they feel that gay people should feel oppressed by politically incorrect heteronormitive language. They'd rather gripe about how transgendered folks in the west should feel discriminated by gender specific bathroom labels. They'd rather gripe that government holidays are Christian-based, and not very inclusive to Judiasm or Islam.

    There are people in the world who live in fear every day that when they leave home to provide food for their family, that they might step on a land mine, blown up from a car bomb, have acid splashed in their faces, and more. And over here in the west, we have social justice twats who gripe about the sitcom "Friends" being about white people.

    It is clear they are spoiled little children who hate western civilization with all their 1st world problems. They don't realize how good they have it over here in the west. Western civilization has done so much for all these marginalized groups by ending slavery, granting women the right to vote, LGBT the right to marry, bringing forth a technological and industrial revolution so we don't have to live like subsistence farmers and hunter-gatherers.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  2. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    As a practical matter, nothing will be done, because nothing can be done. I'm not hearing a plan for constructive action. And will we take on North Korea as well? We have no leverage. I'm afraid I suspect this call for action against an injustice in China is a diversionary tactic to take our attention away from the serious threat to U.S. democracy presented by the Alt Right, Breitbart, and the populist ethno-nationalists who preach an ideology that's diametrically opposed to concern for injustices abroad. This is the ideology of Milo, Lauren and the other demagogues you've supported in your posts. What are they doing about the abuses inflicted on these poor Uyghr Muslims in the hands of Chinese barbarians? Villifying Muslims and calling for international disengagement. And what would your solution be? Just to speak out? I certainly agree we need to be aware of the real evil in the world. Speaking of Muslims, the Wahabi/Salafi brand that is infecting populations in the West is exported by our great buddy the KSA. Are we concerned? Doesn't look like it. Just the opposite. And Russia, run essentially by a mob boss? But there are outrages in our own backyard that are much more serious than bathroom labels, TV portrayals of minorities, and politically incorrect language. The biggest one is the crime boss sitting in the White House. We may not be able to do something about him either, but we have a better chance. Do you think Trump gives a rat's ass about Uyghurs, if he even knows what they are? The most effective way to put pressure on China would be through our government, and we have one that doesn't care.

    From some of the comments on the thread, it seems that the idea of being forced to do something against one's conscience doesn't seem to carry much impact. To me, it's something to get really outraged about, because of the importance I attach to conscience and freedom of thought. I suspect many people have grown casual about such matters in our secular, hedonistic society. Maybe that's the most constructive place to begin--to make people aware that there is more to human existence than pursuit of wealth, status, power, and pleasure. If we had a government that cared, we could at least use our influence with countries like Thailand to resist repatriating Uyughrs who successfully flee China. Would you favor resettling them in the United States? Would it change your opinion if you knew that some 100,000 of them have joined ISIS?
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
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  3. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Think I might go to China, tell them I'm a Muslim.
    Sounds appetising. Sssssuckers
     
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  4. fraggle_rock

    fraggle_rock Member

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    Oh, here you go:

    Relative Privation
     
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  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Speaking of relative privation, we mustn't forget the Rohingya who are being subjected to violence and atrocities by the Myanmar Buddhists--ethnic cleansing is what the U.S. calls it.The U.N. characterized them in 2013 as the most persecuted minority in the world. Like the Uyghurs, the Rohingya have lived in the country for centuries, but are denied citizenship and are being forced out of the country as illegal immigrants by a campaign of ethnic cleansing--by mass killings, sexual violence, and widespread arson. Most are Muslims. Over 680,000 have fled to Bangladesh already, with more on the way. Where is the outrage? The Rohingya crisis - CNN Rohingya Crisis Who Are the Rohingya and Why Are They Fleeing Myanmar? The Latest: US: Myanmar continues Rohingya ethnic cleansing U.N. blames Facebook for helping to spread hatred against them. Rohingya crisis: Thousands of Muslim minorities flee Myanmar - CBS News This while Fox and Friends and right wingers dither about people saying "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", the doings of Black Lives Matter, political correctness, and Obama's citizenship. And then there are those who post on internet forums complaining about overweight women, SJWs, women in hijabs, campus Safe Spaces, etc. Where is the Outrage? Oh, those insensitive, over-indulged right wingers! What is this country coming to?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  6. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I hope you're not saying that just because nothing can be done about it, we shouldn't talk about it or spread social awareness? That's a shitty attitude if you ask me..

    At the very least, we can discuss these things with others, write articles, cancel your vacation to China, or write to your representatives to limit trading with countries that engage in gruesome human rights violations. It may be futile in the short run, but it's the right idea.

    Wrong. The way Milo reports how Muslims abroad treat their homosexuals and "insubordinate" women. And how Lauren Southern has documented the genocide on Afrikaan farmers looming ahead in South Africa, show that they do have concern for injustices abroad.

    I won't defend the alt-right though. Richard Spencer and his cult were fans of the recent Black Panther movie and the ethno-state of Waconda though.

    Speaking out is a first step.


    From what I've noticed, people will get outraged whenever the media TELLS them to be outraged. I'm not a CNN or Fox News reporter, who propagates outrage at the will of Rupert Murdoch, George Soros, or the global elite. I'm just some guy with an opinion who's looking for intelligent discussion on matters such as this.

    I will say that whenever the US or any multi-national governing body tries to police the world through military aggression. They fuck it up even more than they did before it started.


    Yes, as an upper middle class leftist who lives in a gated community full of McMansions, I say open all our borders exclusively to muslims only. And house them in places where I don't visit very often. LOL
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
  7. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I don't care how people say their holiday greetings. The ones who gripe about Merry Christmas / Happy Holidays are right wing SJWs. And in a lot of instances, they can be just as annoying as regular SJWs.

    "The doings of Black Lives Matter," Are you implying you don't give a damn about further destruction of black communities, rioting, violence, pushing more warfare between black people and police departments? None of this is a problem to you?

    Women in Hijabs. Ok so I thought about this a little further. It's wrong of me to think it's silly to be wearing a hijab in a free country. It's more likely that her husband or father won't let her be seen in public without one.

    There are no Safe Spaces and Cry Closets in the business and professional world (unless you get a job at Google or Buzzfeed). I want colleges to prepare for the real world MORE, not less. Tough up and live with the fact that the people you work for, and your clientele will be insensitive assholes from time to time.
     
  8. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Pretty much. I think religion can be a motivation for warfare, and limiting human progression and advancement. But history has shown us that other motives can be utilized for such devastation.
     
  9. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Heaven forfend we not talk about the plight of the Uyghurs or spread social awareness, but there isn't much that can be done for them, so it's realistic not to let our concern for them distract from things that can be done: trying to eliminate injustices here at home. I've been to China, have no plans to go back again, and don't think Americans cancelling their vacations will have the slightest affect on policy toward the Uyghurs. Your concern for the plight of distant Muslims is interesting, considering your numerous posts berating the ones in Europe and the U.S. The Uygurs are mistreated partly because of a systematic propaganda campaign by the Chinese government to demonize them, similar to the one which Lauren, Milo, Fox, Breitbart, The Rebel Media have been waging against Muslims in general. The Persecution of China's Muslim Uyghurs I still suspect that the fallacy of Relative Privation is at work here.And what about those Rohingyas?

    Wrong. It shows they are involved in an international effort to stir up hatred against Muslims and blacks in order to fuel white nationalism, the better to serve the political ambitions of their corporate masters. Lauren's documentary on alleged "white genocide" in South Africa is red meat for white supremacists. Granted the homicide rate in South Africa is high and farm murders have occurred and are unacceptable. But allegations of ongoing genocide on the basis of incomplete and contradictory evidence is more sensationalism.Lauren Southern And Stefan Molyneux Stir Up Racist Fears Over ‘Genocide’ In South Africa

    .
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  10. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    Are you saying that we should or shouldn't be concerned about the plight of the Uyghurs. And what on earth does this have to do with religions persecuting people for their scientific beliefs. Surely you're not saying that brainwashing of Uyghurs is a good thing because they're Muslim. Or are you? As pointed out, nobody believes "Jesus is alive and riding a horse on the Moon' but if there were such people, why and how would you go about getting rid of them. Sounds ominous to me. Your comments about religion causing ALL wars is ignorant. In addition to the Korean War that Noserider mentioned, there was-- let's see: the American Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Crimean War, the U.S.Civil War, World War I, World War II, and the Vietnam War. A historian would be hard pressed to find religion playing a role in any of them. Going back farther, what role did religion play in the Greek and Persian wars, the Peloponnesian War, or the Punic wars? Methinks you're engaging in a bit of exaggeration. There have certainly been and are a lot of non-religious racists. The British slave trade in the eighteenth century wasn't ended by atheists, but by Sir William Wilberforce, a Christian. And your lumberjack comment is downright chilling. Your posts provide a useful illustration that bigotry is by no means confined to religious circles.
     
  11. P!erre!

    P!erre! Members

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    What I'm saying it that I am totally against forcing muslims or any other cult to do my shit but, at the same time I am against them trying to make me do their shit. Guess I should've written this in the first place...
     
  12. Noserider

    Noserider Goofy-Footed Member

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    So live and let live?

    I think most rational people take that approach.
     
  13. P!erre!

    P!erre! Members

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    Totally, agree. Live and let live. Like I said though - many islamists have tried to "sell" me their religion. But, it wouldn't bother me if someone went across down disguised as Spider-Man, as long as they don't try to make me dress as Spider-Man.
     
  14. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I don’t hate Muslims. I hate the political and philosophical values of Islam as a whole. It’s a far right wing ideology that contradicts everything good about liberalism.

    Although I don’t like Islam, I don’t think it’s right to imprison a Muslim and force them into sacrilegious rituals. And I’m sure if the Trump administration started doing this to American Muslims, this whole board would erupt in chaos and rage.

    The left is mad at Denmark for banning the face veil because it (supposedly) oppresses Muslims. Yet the oppression of Muslims in China falls on he left’s deaf ears. It seems to me they aren’t so much Pro-Islam as they are anti-western civilization


    So there you have it; telling the story of an ethnic group of people who are being murdered and chased off the lands they’ve owned and lived on for hundreds of years is an now deemed an act of white nationalism. :rolleyes: In Mandela’s diverse rainbow nation of South Africa no less.

    If you read nothing but hit-pieces on these journalists, it’s no wonder you think this way.

    I do think it’s hilarious the left is trying to get Lauren and Stefan Molyneux banned in Australia. They feel so threatened by other people’s opinions, but weather than argue with them, they resort to fascist measures of censorship and destruction of free speech. The left has forgotten how to argue, now they use brute force.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  15. OrleansWordsmith

    OrleansWordsmith Moderate anarchist

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    Muslims are required to pray five times a day. This information is available anywhere. If someone is praying 50 times a day, this is a choice, not a religious requirement. Ramadan is a month of fasting for Muslim people. No non-Muslim person is required to fast during Ramadan and many Muslims do not fast for a host of reasons. There is no killing involved in any case. Alcohol is generally forbidden for Muslims but there are five or so sects that simply discourage it. According to how strict someone is about alcohol, some Muslims would be offended to have others consume alcohol around them. But if one is a guest at another's table, to require them to follow their religious rules seems somewhat draconian. However, I would not consume wine if I knew it offended someone in a Muslim household where I ate. A Muslim man can marry a Christian woman and she doesn't have to convert. But it appears Muslim women aren't supposed to marry a Christian man unless he converts. If you are in a Muslim country where women wear the hijab, you do as other women in the country do, or you could be subject to scrutiny you don't want. Some Muslim countries are stricter about this than others. Pierre is basing his personal experience and an incident with a prime minister of France with the Iraq leader as what occurs in all Muslim countries and all Muslim households. Since I don't have a close Muslim friend, I have no idea if close friendship is possible, but to close the door before knowing someone of the faith seems narrow minded.
     
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  16. OrleansWordsmith

    OrleansWordsmith Moderate anarchist

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    It sounds like they may be religiously intolerant not racist. They might not be flexible in tolerating practices other than their own. This has nothing to do with race, but their adhering to strict Islamic tenets. There are people of many races who practice Islam.
     
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  17. OrleansWordsmith

    OrleansWordsmith Moderate anarchist

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    I'm a Catholic too, but the pope doesn't rule me. The practice of love, peace and understanding does and that is the message of Christ. We don't need a phone home from God or anyone else. We have to practice what is human and humane. God might've kicked off the big bang. The rest is up to us. I don't give up my money either, or listen to a few leaders. I listen to my heart and practice decency.
     
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  18. OrleansWordsmith

    OrleansWordsmith Moderate anarchist

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    Are you joking about catholic crusades? Enroll you? Have death penalties over Santa Claus? This is complete nonsense. Santa Claus is a mix of a 4th Cent Greek Bishop, a Germanic pagan god and Dutch and English traditions. Claus was ultimately named Saint Nicholas and linked with a tradition of year-end present giving during the winter solstice and the birth of Christ. Yeah maybe I was taken to Mass a lot as a child and spoke words I didn't understand. But I never made any choices about the whole thing until I was an adult. Who does? If baptism's the enrollment you're talking about, I was an infant. The only crusades I know of were in the 12th and 13th centuries, more or less. They were a bloody mess. I haven't participated in any modern ones. Catholicism today is about welcoming all people and helping as many as possible who are in physical or emotional need. Clothes drives, food drives, emergency relief and the like. I donate to help needy people sometimes. You seem mad at religions, and atheism isn't one, by the way. You can't judge entire groups by a flawed few practitioners or leaders be they priests, nuns, popes or Islamics. The only pedophile I've known of was a teacher in my high school. Doctors, police, teachers, any position of authority where interaction with children can occur, can shield a pedophile.
     
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  19. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I live in Oklahoma, the "Buckle of the Bible Belt" in the U.S. People out here talk about Catholics, Baptists, Methodists and Church of Christ pretty much the same way people on this thread have been talking about Muslims--and Catholics--and some of it is true. I've run into lots of Baptists who don't think Catholics are Christian. A friend went into a Christian bookstore here to get a book by a Catholic author and was told "I'm sorry. We only sell Christian books." Baptists have been told by Church of Christ (and vice versa) that they should convert to the other's faith before it's too late, because otherwise they're going to hell. And then there are those Episcopalians and Nazarenes! And yet, for the most part, we get along. Most people are decent and just want to go about their daily lives in peace, and somehow it all works out. There are some narrow minded folks in each religion, but I've found most aren't that way. Christianity at its best is, as you say, is about peace, love and understanding, and organized altruism. That's why I'm a Christian. The Church has come along way since the Middle Ages, all to the good in my opinion.

    And now we have those Muslims. What to make of them? The ones around here are moderates who are majorly into PR and interacting with the community. Most are middle class students, professors, and businessmen. My impression of them is that they're also decent people trying to do what's right as best they can and not interested in abusing others. Yes, they have beliefs that are different from ours. We try to understand and respect those differences. They don't seem that much odder than those Catholics, Baptists and Church of Christ folks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  20. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    This is why I suspect your concern for the issue is mainly a set up for more political propaganda against "the Left". I think your post is a classic illustration of the Relative Privation fallacy, which is: minimizing abuse to Muslims in the west by comparing it to far worse treatment of Muslims elsewhere. Also, the Red Herring Fallacy:diverting attention from the real issue by focusing instead on an issue having only a surface relevance to the first. e.g., "Leftist": I think throwing pigs heads into mosques and pulling off hijabs from Muslim girls is a bad thing." Six-eyed :"You hypocrite. Why aren't you concerned about those poor Uyghurs being brainwashed by the Communist Chinese?"

    Why single out "the Left"? What is "the Right" doing about the issue? Nothing much that I can see. And don't forget the Rohyngas in Myanmar being pushed around by the Buddhists! Why don't they deserve our concern? I was talking to a Trumpster "libertarian" just last night who was on an anti-Muslim tirade, and with your posts fresh in my mind, I brought up the Uyghurs. And his reaction was much like a number of those on the thread: "Never heard of them, but not surprised China would do that because they do it to all religion and dissenters, and wow! free booze and bacon!" It bothers me a whole bunch that that kind of psychological violence of conscience you describe is being done to people. That of course is what brain washing is all about. Now that China has become a major creditor and trading partner and part of the nuclear club, our government tends to downplay the human rights abuses in that perennially despotic country. Relatively speaking, China has made progress since Mao's Cultural Revolution when roving gangs of ideologues were given free rein to abuse suspected deviationists in any way that came to mind. It was hard enough getting American opinion stirred up about that. I would hope that this whole board would erupt in chaos if Trump started any kind of campaign to forcibly assimilate Muslims, because we're used to a level of religious liberty and diversity that is one of the blessings of western civilization. That is precisely why I think it makes sense to be concerned about Muslim bashing in the U.S. and Europe.

    As a realist, I've never seen much point in being a Don Quixote for futile causes. I passed a group of demonstrators on the courthouse lawn last week, protesting war and calling for world peace. Gotta admit, nice sincere well-meaning people. Kept them out of the bars, and out in the fresh air. And it was a great cause. But I doubt that what they were doing--demonstrating for peace in a small south-western town in 2018--was really making a change. It could catch on. I believe in miracles, and if everybody did it (which is unlikely) we might have some positive change. But I really doubt it. A few blocks down on the other side of the street, an earnest young man was standing with a sign "Jesus said 'Go and sin no more!" Also a nice thought, and if people take it to heart it would be a better world. Fat chance! The anti-war protests in the sixties were effective because people had a stake in the issue. Guys were being drafted, sent overseas and not coming back, or coming back maimed or fucked up.The most effective thing people can do here to bring about positive change is to vote in leaders who are committed to bringing it about. Avoid the warmongers, the neocons, etc. Consciousness raising about Uyghurs is commendable, but it tends to be neutralized by all the anti-Muslim diatribe you serve up to us about hijabs, rape grooming, etc. You may get people stirred up about the Uyghurs, but if they learn many of them are terrorists and wear hijabs, what then?

    You say Muslims are authoritarian. Hell, so are Catholics, for that matter, and there used to be plenty of prejudice against them. But the Church has mellowed, and we've learned to live with them. You're really straining here to cast this matter as an instance of left wing hypocrisy, but I think the hypocrisy of your own position is transparent.

    More agitprop. Lauren is a big promoter of Renuad Camus's "great replacement" theory that immigration will lead to white genocide. Her South African venture is in pursuit of ammunition for that theory. Seek and ye shall find!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
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