Mormons?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Adamskiffle, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    Technically, he said "live a Christian life, not be a Christian. He may have in mind following the teachings and example of Jesus, which it's possible to do without accepting Jesus as one's personal savior.
    It's not a legal requirement that a candidate for President serve in the armed forces, but some voters may consider it --or at least not actively dodging the draft--to be a moral requirement, .
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  2. Tishomingo

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    This statement seems difficult to support on the basis of our best scholarship on Paul and Revelation. Paul was probably born around 5 c.e., was writing letters in the 50s & early 60s c.e., and died in the early 60s. The author of Revelation is unknown although often thought to have been John of Patmos writing Revelation during the reign of Emperor Domition in the eighties to early nineties. So your statement that Paul "hadn't been born when the author of Revelation had been in the grave for many generations" is a bizarre example of fractured history--as though where the history of Christianity is concerned, anything goes.

    This "what if" statement seems completely absurd. Jezebel (assuming that's whom you're referring to) is a figure from the Old Testament, who lived and died in the early 800s B.C. E.--obviously eight centuries before Christ was born. And she is portrayed as an evil woman, hardly Christlike. So no, that wouldn't make Paul the real Anti-christ, becuse she was only christ in you imagination. It's unlikely that the apocalypse was a reference to an easily forseeable fall of Rome. Rome wouldn't fall for several centuries later. What Abelard, a twelfth century French theologian, had to do with it is obscure. The "meek inheriting the earth" is a phrase from the Sermon on the Mount, not Revelation, and probably means what it says. It's as though you opened a book on the history of Christianity, picked out a bunch of words and phrases, put them in a hat, and drew out a few without the slightest idea what you're talking about. The part about Mohammad, Columbus and the vikings is an obvious non-sequitor. How did they get into the act? I'd have to agree with Varmint's assessment of this, which is rare.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  3. Tishomingo

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    It's from both. The important point is its not from Revelation--and to say that the passage refers to the liberation of the Roman empire, which didn't exist in Davidic times, would be even more absurd than to say Jesus had the Roman Empire in mind.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  4. Tishomingo

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    Belief in imaginary beings can be a harmless pastime, I suppose,especially when they're benevolent. Danger comes when imagination goes off the rails and becomes a weapon for attacking reality. "What if jezzabel had been the real return of christ? wouldn't that make "saint" paul the real anti-christ?" Jezebel, the 9th century the Sidonian princess who was the wife of King Ahab of Israel, seems to have been a real person, although the spicier stories about her have been questioned. To say that if she had been the real return of the Antichrist, that would make Paul the real anti-Christ is to come up with a pure hypothetical that lacks any foundation in fact and to make it a cudgel to beat up on one of the most influential figures in Christianity--without a shred of substance. Anybody can play that game, and there seem to be no rules or limits. What if the Buddha were really a serial killer, rapist, and pedophile who molested and murdered young children. Wouldn't that make all of his followers accomplices? Or what if the Prophet Muhammad were really a female transvestite? Wouldn't that be a hoot?! Feeling connected is something most of us enjoy. Not all of us feel connected to unknown beings, at least not since childhood, but if you and they're harmless and it works for you, go for it. Just don't confuse your chimeras with my bible history.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  5. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    my intent isn't to "cudgel" anything, or at least any living person, but jezabel aside, saul of tarsus mission, whether self appointed or as an agent of pre-christian rome, was to neutralize the threat of love and peace to a kingdom and an empire built on war. and what he realized on demascus road, if anything, was that trying to terrorize the early followers, was counter productive of that end, and that the way that could be accomplished was to sabotage their unity from the inside, which is precisely what his epistles proceeded to do. this was the fact that the majority of the first mycean council was fully aware of. but when the voted it apocraphil and heretical, they were slaughtered to a man, by the paulist members of that council. and when the second mycean council was convened 80 years later, the paulists had stacked the deck, and that is the only reason they remained in the library of scrolls that became today's bible.

    second point; jesus didn't write anything, the four of his followers who were literate did. and while jesus may have been chosen by the god he self proclaimed to be "the sun of", to channel that god's will to humans, as were moses and others before, and the three since, they were still writing hearsay. only four? because literacy was a nerd thing in their day.

    there are many other aspects that only become clear when placed in historical context.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  6. Tishomingo

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    I agree with your last point, but it's important to get the historical context right. Varmint dismissed you as a troll. I'm not sure that's what you mean to be, but your posts have the same effect in two respects: (1) they draw people off topic, going down rabbit holes. The topic of this thread is Mormons. Nothing you've brought up has anything in particular to do with Mormons. Paul certainly wasn't a Mormon; and (2) they contain so many factual errors that people waste their time trying to correct them all. Take for example what you've said in this post. The notion that Paul was some kind of Roman agent has been advanced by other writers, but they accused him of promoting Christianity as a means of dividing Judaism. His version of Christianity placed a lot of emphasis on love and peace 1 Cor 13:13; Gal. 5: 22; Eph.1:15; 2:14; 5:2; etc. There was no Mycean council (did you mean Nicene?) and where on earth did you get that business about Paulists slaughtering anybody to the man at such a conference, or "the Paulists' second council? "The Paulists" were not a faction at either Council. In the first century c.e. the label "Paulists" could be used to distinguish what became the orthodox Christian position from that of the Ebionites, Nazerenes, or Judaizers, who saw Christianity as a form of Judaism. The Judaizers were mostly wiped out in the Roman wars after 70 c.e., but not at the behest of the Paulists. So its this kind of fractured history that undermines confidence that you are giving us anything factual rather than your own garbled version of reality.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  7. Varmint

    Varmint Member

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    You appear to have a poor grasp of biblical history, but do go on. After all, you are entitled to your own made-up opinions and viewpoints.
     
  8. Tishomingo

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    Well, he's entitled to them, but I hope nobody takes them seriously.
     
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