Monsanto Multinational

Discussion in 'Globalization' started by LeftLeftRightLeft, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. i0-techno

    i0-techno The Magnificent Dope

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    Odon, it might be more humane to look beyond the scholarly outlook you have on sharing information. If a farmer says to you he is being raped by a corporation you can't go look at a journal that can represent that fact better. It sounds like you want everyone to be scholarly but this issue is of passion and resistance to an obviously aloof offender. That being any big corporation if you ask me. For example, the NFL earns 5-8 billion dollars a season and they spend one month representing a care for breast cancer awareness, if it was my company and I really gave a fuck I would pay who needed to be paid and donate the rest to a cause that could be cured or look to a preventitive measure. People in my company would not get paid about a certain amount because if one man starves and I am giving another man means above and beyond surviving then I am doing that starving man an injustice because money is to be shared and not hoarded, money is nothing but product if you think about it, for a product you need money, why have so much product in one mouth instead of all, would a true enlightened human see any reason for this? Same goes for anything, you may be into seeds and farming and yea you may be a big multinational corporation, but you simply need to be fair, if not it is obvious. Why write up a contract that says you can only by seeds from us? Monopolies are illegal anyway, think about it. You think these corporations don't see what is happening to the land? A farmer knows that you need water and you need healthy soil and to continue to grow just one type of crop year in and year out is detrimental but farmers can't just do what is right because there is government intervention which hinders them. Just seems to me the focus on what is right has been blurred or ignored. I saw a documentary today entitled "The Planet" and in this movie they spoke of how glaciers in Asia have depleted and that soon the water that feeds the irrigation to rice fields will be gone. That is a major produce that is shipped worldwide so no matter how big the corporation, they will suffer the same as everyone. If a seed company really gave a fuck they would help to cultivate farmland all over the world, not pollute the world with harmful energies and they wouldn't try to control peoples actions. There is nothing pure in any business that isn't offering its services from the heart. I blame corruption because it is blatantly there, I don't need any study to tell me this, I have eyes and a heart that beats not for me but for life its self. That includes the scumbags of the Earth. We all need to be helping hands.
     
  2. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I do understand what you are saying, but it seems nobody has really said that.
    If they have, I must have missed it.
    I did note that yovo had some experience first hand, but it seems he has taken the position that I am looking at this purely from one perspective (and have bias towards Monsanto).
    I do not wish to, really...and I don't.

    First hand experience is fine, but there still does seems to be a large dose of prejudice going on here.
    It seems a lot is based on prejudice and hearsay (I ain't looking at any facts just what I think).
    Isn't it reasonable to atleast get some tangible evidence rather then pure prejudice?

    No.
    Not at all.
    I'm just not keen on prejudice alone.
    I do not think they are aloof...just not many people care to look at what they say or what the actual truth might be.

    That's unreasonable...the NFL is a business not a charity.
    If it is tokenistic, that is one thing...but if it is a genuine concern for a particular cause...any money (and a highlight of the issue) is a good thing.

    If a man is working and still starving, that is not right...is that really true, though?
    Do people work at your place of work and still starve?

    I think you are talking about pure socialism or communism...depending on your preference ;).

    I totally agree...and if you can show Monsanto are not being fair...that's a good thing...becaused it is evidential not based on just prejudice.

    As far as I am aware...it is to maintain integrity of the "product".
    The links above highlight the reasons more clearly...check them out.

    It would be a monopoly if Monsanto were the only company producing and selling seed.
    They are not.
    Farmers still have a choice.
    Some farmers might be looking at the "bottom line" and feeling guilty for choosing Monsanto, however.


    What government intervention would that be?

    Show Monsanto (as that is supposedly who we are talking about) are not giving a fuck, and not looking at the bigger picture.

    That's fine...
    I guess I see the world not only with my heart but my head.
    If the two are not entwined and back each other up..I have some difficulty.
     
  3. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    I don't see how this notion of boycotting Monsanto has any relevance when they're eliminating the competition along with our choices as consumers while effectively becoming a monopoly, thanks to a legal system that encourages them to be bullies. If anything, it should be the little guys who don't use GMOs who should have legal recourse for Monsanto's seeds contaminating their natural crop.

    GMOs are making their way into the food supply, and no one knows what the long term ramifications might be. Theirs is the typical corporate model of pushing short term gains without consideration of long term consequences. Maybe some day when there becomes a proven link between GMOs and cancer, we can all sue Monsanto, but I'd rather not have GMOs in my food in the first place, since a legal settlement may not cure my cancer. As a consumer, I will boycott anything I know contains GMOs, but it's not easy when food products aren't required to be labeled as such.

    Insult retracted, sorry.
     
  4. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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  5. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Are you talking to me? If so...no worries, I've had worse.
     
  6. flmkpr

    flmkpr Senior Member

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    http://www.countercurrents.org/en-shiva270404.htm

    i realy would like to get into this disscussion but lack the time to delve to deep at this time i have however i have been keeping an eye on their practices witch in my mind are criminal ! when a big corporation takes out a patent on a living organisim that was developed over centuries by numerous families and farmers and tries to profit from those peoples work they are WAY out of line!
     
  7. flmkpr

    flmkpr Senior Member

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    this is monsanto 101 ! i posted it a long time ago!
    id like to compare it to today, and see the diff in opinion.
    if you want to understand, i believe percey could fill you in better than Ihttp://freedocumentaries.org/film.php?id=211
     
  8. flmkpr

    flmkpr Senior Member

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    hmm that didnt work so well
    lol!
     
  9. flmkpr

    flmkpr Senior Member

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  10. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    Right On! But remember, this is America where justice goes to the highest bidder.

    I'm sure you've heard worse, as have I, but I like to think I've got a little more class than hurling insults at someone because their arguments seem cumbersome to me, when I should be grateful for the challenge of questioning my resolve on the subject. Furthermore, the insult doesn't fit.

    It doesn't change my view point though, and I hope your quest for clarity has led you to at least entertain some of our concerns regarding Monsanto's business practices. I can appreciate that Monsanto needs to recoup the costs of the genetic research that went into their products, but that should be market driven, not foisted upon farmers and us consumers by a legal system that can be exploited in such a way.

    ...bigger picture, it's not just Monsanto, it's the corporate culture of stepping on the little guy, long term destruction for the sake of short term profit. Then again, business performance is measured quarterly, right?
     
  11. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    Mellow Yellow:
    It was a slight knee-jerk reaction on your part, but I appreciate the apology.
    I hope we can now move on.
    Well we already have really. :D

    I am aware of some of the concerns...
    I would say I am more pro GM but that doesn't mean I'm pro Monsanto.
    The arguments against Monsanto I have read are either speculative or slightly out of date (this doesn't negate their actions but I don't think it fair to bash a company for something if they have cleaned up their act.)
    I'm hoping for better arguments and better information from now on.

    This is the kind of accusation I'd like some further information on.

    IMO, the "little guy" still has choice.
    If you can show they don't and they are forced to choose Monsanto, I'd really like to see some evidence of it.
    I would say "western" farmers have far more choice and opportunities than what most would call "third world countries".
    IMO, there the pressures are a lot greater, both financially and horticulturally.
    Would you deny them the option of GM and Monsanto?
    Would you say don't have a choice, don't go down the GM route?

    I appreciate Monsanto website is partisan but even if half of it is true, I think what they do (around the world) is quite amazing.

    You make bold claims such as "long term destruction"...that's another accusation I'd like some further information on.
     
  12. I_Human

    I_Human Member

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    Monsanto's western Canada headquarters are located about a fifteen minute bike ride away from me. One night, we rode up and spraypainted in huge letters all over their beautiful front window/wall "Stay the fuck outta my fridge!"

    T'was fun.
     
  13. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    I managed to get half way through it (I'll tackle the other half another time.)

    (Paraphrased)
    "There has never been a single study on the human safety of these products"

    True (If he means studies involving humans aside from the fact consumers have been eating the products for a few decades.)

    However:

    In the case of MON810 (BT Corn), EFSA experts concluded that it is as safe as conventional maize for food and feed. This assessment, which is supported by various feed studies, is cited to have been confirmed by numerous scientific data published in the past ten years. Furthermore, the influence of MON810 on the environment is cited to have no essential difference to that of conventional maize cultivation.
    http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/news...gm_maize_mon810_efsa_has_no_reservations.html

    Gradually as knowledge increases some precautionary safeguards are being removed, where there is clear evidence that they are not necessary, and efforts are being focused on ensuring the safety of those projects where there are tangible hazards. The safety record in this industry is extremely good.
    http://www.hse.gov.uk/biosafety/gmo/index.htm


    The European Food Safety Authority’s (EFSA’s) opinion on the environmental and human effects of the cultivation of the genetically modified (GM) maize variety MON810

    http://www.bcp.org.ph/downloads/HALOS%20How%20Bt%20Corn%20Was%20Approved.pdf

    In 1992, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) ruled that there was "no substantial difference" between GM foods and conventional varieties, and so no form of labeling was necessary. Likewise it deemed there was no need for human-safety tests.

    Peggy lemaux
    "Can I assure consumers that scientifically the benefits GM food outweigh the risks - No I can not"

    She might not have been able to do that, but she is an advocate of GM crops:

    My career has been devoted to the development and use of recombinant DNA tools to improve food crops. I am now thrilled to be part of the African Biofortified Sorghum Project, aimed at improving sorghum for Africa. My childhood thrill has led me down a path that I hope will have a positive impact on the lot of the poor in Africa.
    http://biosorghum.org/

    Most of the innovations to date have been designed to aid in the large-scale growing, handling and processing of food, but the next generation of GM crops we will see modifications to enhance nutritional value and improve flavor.
    http://www.mindfully.org/GE/Frankenfoods-Frighten-You.htm
    (A fairly balanced assessment IMO)

    (Paraphrase a general sentiment)

    "Companies such as Monsanto claim that GM crops (such as golden grain) will wipe out world hunger"

    An astonishing claim to make, but has it ever been made?
     
  14. MaxPatlick

    MaxPatlick Member

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    Monsanto is pretty shitty, but it was the supreme court decided that it was legal to patent life which basically gives monsanto the legal right to do the stupid shit they do..

    so.. I blame the decision to allow patents on genes, not monsanto for simply taking advantage of that.

    Don't hate the playa, hate the game.
     
  15. MaxPatlick

    MaxPatlick Member

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    The 14yr old in me applauds your vandalous(I just made that word up) effort, but 28yr old in me says you probably should have focused that energy into something more productive..

    still.. :cheers2:
     
  16. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    In a free market, we consumers have the right to know if our foods are GM'd or not, just as we have the right to know if there's growth hormones in our milk, or if our produce is organic. They don't wanna put it on the label because they know it'll be bad for business. People are skeptical, and they have the right to be, in the absence of a proven long term history. Thirteen years of commercially available GMOs isn't long enough for me.

    I've lost faith in the FDA, who has dropped the ball numerous times lately, due to under staffing, lack of resources, and negligence (or corruption). Who do you think lobbies the FDA?

    That explains your position. I can respect that you're a scientist, like myself, and that as an expert you probably know a hell of a lot more about genetic engineering than I do, but we're talking about Monsanto's behavior as a corporation, not the validity of genetic engineering as a science.

    Maybe genetic engineering is a good thing, but Monsanto doesn't do much for their credibility when they don't play fair.

    My wife was in the peace corps in South America, and she witnessed first-hand the intellectual property theft of herbal compounds by the agri-techs from the indigenous, how they would steal their ideas, then force them to buy them back.

    Bigger picture, this is typical unbridled capitalism. In the pursuit of profit, Monsanto's just doing what any purely economic entity must do, as do their competitors, which isn't necessarily "the right thing" when the objectives conflict.
     
  17. odon

    odon Slightly Popular

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    It might be as simple as: They are right (FDA assertions that GM has no proven health risks.)
    Labeling is informative, yes...I agree.
    IMHO, labeling has the benefit of informing consumers, but the downfall of the issues being sidelined, as business' would say (basically): "It's your choice...now leave us alone."

    IMHO, there IS a long term history of the ramifications (or lack of) of GMO on the human body, and the environment.
    The fact it might not be widely known is not the fault of those providing the information, IMHO, more to do with an overly skeptical public ignoring it, and the plethora of negative information that most people seem to rather take note of (Why? I do not know.)

    If they are right: There is no need for labeling, they would argue..
    However, I do agree that the consumers have a right to know.
    Labeling might effect business, yes.
    Do you think there are more labels asserting that they do NOT have GMO in the products (rather than manufactures putting labels on products saying there are, by themselves,) and that is better than nothing at all?

    E.gs?

    Food manufactures.
    Environmental groups.
    Who do you think is more powerful?
    IMHO, THE CONSUMER/Environmental groups are...
    ...as I do think more information is known about (or consumers are aware of) the potential health/environmental risk might be.
    Which side of the argument do you know more about, and express to others?

    I'm not a scientist, far from it.
    That was about, Peggy lemaux.
    I understand:
    My links don't seem to work, why? I have no idea...probaly not a good Idea to discuss why.
    I'll work around any future links I post, so anybody can find the information I am providing.

    I appreciate this is more about Monsanto's business practices.
    I am more interested about Monsanto's business practices.
    Not enough firm evidence of Monsanto's business practices have been revealed in this thread yet, Imo.

    I'll get some information about this one of these days. :D

    They can't steal anything, nobody owns them.
    It is a little bizarre for the indigenous people to buy back something, I assume, they would deem inferior.
    I'm not a big advocate of "agri-techs" taking "herbal-compounds," and sellinbg them - as "herbal remedies" - with out any evidence they actually work...or many regulation in their use.

    I am a big advocate of compounds being garnered from natural sources, and being used in medicines that actually work.

    True.
     
  18. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    Way to go Monsanto, here's a quote from Democracy Now!'s web site:

    I am a scientist, and while my area of expertise isn't genetic engineering, I am concerned about the current trend of politicians and marketeers promoting their agenda as fact, when it's not. Furthermore, I wouldn't put too much stock in what Monsanto's scientists are saying, given where their pay checks are coming from. If you go to the Union of Concerned Scientists' web site, of which I'm a member, they have some interesting facts about what Monsanto is doing. This corporation is evil folks.
     
  19. tikoo

    tikoo Senior Member

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    on our farm in Iowa the total bill for corn and soy seed each year is about $20 ,000 and ya it's been going mostly to Monsanto . Cousin Neal down the road is the neighborhood salesman . lately , my brother who manages the farm has been getting a bit strange about the whole arrangement - it's a mystery . this last year he took part of a field out of regular Bt corn production and planted Native American flour corn . it's funny how the neighbors got sorta mad at him like he's unpatriotic or something . now that the harvest is complete he doesn't know quite what to do with the indian corn . some women took some for decorations . as far as i know i'm the only one who's been grinding and eating it ... so good ... it's a primal good feeling ... and tasty , vital .

    the Monsanto Bt corn ? consider it bio-mass .
     
  20. Mellow Yellow

    Mellow Yellow Electrical Banana

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    If the shit burns that's great, maybe there's a good use for their stuff after all, but I don't want it going in my body.
     

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