Military

Are you really this dense? I never said anything about whether or not you ever wore a uniform, nor did I accuse you of writing those things. Go back and re-read what I posted.

 

I'm saying that the military reflects our society. We created it and sustain it based on our current reality. It changes with society.

Just because it serves the purpose that we give it, does not mean I agree or feel the same way as the rest of the society that is shaping it.

I admire Norway. We could get into that a bit deeper but it is starting to get out of the scope of this thread.

This was more a thread about ideals. Reading your posts I honestly think we are all arguing about different things.

I think I should have been more clear and directed with this thread from the get go. I was struggling to articulate clearly what I was trying to say. It's hard sometimes to tell a story with so much background and many layers. A lot gets lost in translation.

Sig, you disagree with me. That is fine.

I had the talk with my friend. She knows exactly how I feel about the issue and always have. I didn't want to separate myself from her and am trying to fight it but it is very hard for me to accept. It is just different from my definition of honorable or noble.

If you want to know what type of military it is in reality, draw on your own experiences, talk to (or read the statements from) government leaders, read the news and a few alternatives to the news. Talk to old hippies, talk to other soldiers, talk to people who hate the military, talk to people who love it. I'm sure you already have a good idea of what the military is, Sig. You obviously support and find meaning in it.

And the meat comment, Sig. I know a lot of animals eat meat. For humans, however, it is not necessary. We don't need to eat meat to survive and we have a full comprehension of the suffering we are causing (unlike some animals). I personally try to opt out of causing suffering whenever I reasonably can do so. This is a whole 'nother can of worms.

And Willy Blue. Hey thanks. I noticed that I was receiving a bit of rep for this thread but people weren't actually coming to my defense. lol . That is ok.

 

The government doesn't consider killing foreign soldiers murder because it suits their purposes. I disagree with that. I am challenging that societal assumption.

Never said you had no souls. Ugh. Enough with that.

And in general, I don't think the rugged individualist would succeed in the military as well as someone who could more easily accept orders given to them. Doesn't mean these soldiers are stupid--there are plenty of careers that involve critical thinking. However, what I'm saying is the mere act of joining the service requires that you buy in to certain societal beliefs. Someone who was more of a free thinking might not buy into these beliefs so easily.

Does that mean free thinking is better? I'm not sure. We don't live in a time where free thinking makes it easier to be accepted, meet people or get a job.

 

The military reflects what is happening in this thread. Ironic huh. People don't get along. People want power and influence. People want to win. People want their rights. In the end though, it's that society needs protection. That is very noble. And if there is one thing that government does right, its to have a military.

 

Is accepting orders a weakness? Those that can't or don't....I think they're our problem. You know, out of control teens, defiant workers, hardened criminals. They're not independent thinkers, they're jerks.

 

Norway has been, and still is, involved in aggressive wars.

Fair enough. BTW, I said nothing about meat.

 

It can be. There are times when it is a weakness. To me those examples are someone unrelated.

Think of the Nuremberg Defense.

 

I guess this is backtrack. Next time, I suggest thinking a bit more before before posting such absurd generalizations and ill-informed statements.

 

While I don't agree that they are absurd or ill-informed I will definitely choose my words a bit more carefully. I think in arguments people are often fighting about different things and don't really realize it. This thread turned in to something I didn't really expect. I wish only to discuss this in person. I think you would have a different take of me. Not that I'm going to travel to the great frozen north to discuss world affairs, but I think we could have a better discussion face to face.

And Norway--yes, they are involved. BUT not to the same extent. The USA is well known for her eagle-like military. I think even Obama is pretty aggressive for a liberal . But like I said...I don't want to get into that.

Actually, one of my "bucket list" travel destinations in in Minnesota, to the birthplace of Bob Dylan. .

 

Ok let's leave it at that. I guess we could shuttle this back and forth for a long time and get nowhere.

Me too. Great country. High number of millionaires. Good social system.

But also mandatory military service for men AND women.

Costa Rica comes to mind though.

I get that but I don't think that we are all arguing about different things. I'm arguing your argumentation.

Good. Now we're talking. Just shoot straight and you'll get your point across.

In the meantime I'll be joining Willy and Asmodean for a well deserved (and hopefully ice cold) beer.

 

That’s why I joined the military to settle those differences on the battlefield and to win.

Negotiations can only go just so far then it’s time for the military to step up to the plate, and on a battlefield of our choosing, and with honor, we will prevail

hotwater

 

This thread should be titled "Fuck Everyone Who Thinks/Feels Differently Than I Do", because that's basically what it boils down to.

 

Do you like America, just not the military? If you don't like america why live here? I agree that you can like america and not like the military in that case stay, but if you don't like either why stay

 

Why do you say it is not necessary to eat meat. Yes one can have an alternative diet, with all the imported foods now a days, but we in nature are omnivores, otherwise we would not have been given canines, tell me why do we have canines?

 

That is a big question. America is a big place. I love certain things about the geography and the culture. I love the warmth of the south and the quaintness of the north, the friendly and open culture of the west.

I like the people. But do I feel "proud" to be an American? No, not really. It was an accident, my being born here. My American-ness wasn't something I "deserved" or didn't deserve, you and I and everyone else here just happened to be born on this mass of land in between the sea. I'd "proud" to be a college graduate, to have entered a good and meaningful line of work.

Why not just "leave"? I don't know where I would go. My loved ones are here, my life is here. I suppose if an opportunity that made sense (a good job in a sensible place) presented itself, I would have no qualms with leaving.

 

I answered that question in another post. No imported foods necessary.

 

You could teach English in a foreign company. Perhaps you should get a job where you can travel, then travel the world, and find a place where you can find a promising job and settle down there

 

I suppose. My coworker was doing that, as was another acquaintance of mine. The problem with that is many of those jobs are in Asia or the Middle East. Not necessarily places that I would want to be, if I could choose. And those jobs often last only a few years, not much security and I'm not sure that I would enjoy teaching. No easy answer there.

Besides--I'm not against living here. There are many other suitable places where the quality of life would be as good or better, but this is by no means a bad place to live, if you can look past certain things.

 

You still haven't answered as to why we have canines if we were not meant to eat meat?