Military

Clearly the england and germany remark was meant to point out only this moment in time because they were much worse than the US in past years.

 

What I am seeing here is that, because you cannot understand (or don't want to understand) why someone would willingly join up and do their duty once they have, then they must be brainwashed. I mean, their reasons must not be real because, hey, you don't think they are real.

Because, sometimes, people need to die and killing is necessary. I am sorry that doesn't mesh with your world view but, at the end of the day, your world view is uninformed and naive.

We don't know how to think for ourselves now? Come down off your high horse, woman. Military service requires vast amounts of critical thinking skills, independent thought, and initiative. The military wants men who can not only follow orders, but also think for themselves. We don't want robots. Again, your ignorance and naivete comes shining through.

I think there is more to your boyfriend's story than your telling us. He resigned? Was he an officer?

*gasp* Your military reporter friend was told, by his employer, what he could and could not report on? Stop the presses.... Your friend was never a reporter in the sense you think he was.

You're explaining yourself quite well, so no worries. You are also coming of as naive and ignorant as to how the United States military functions.

Da fauq? Why the hell would I attack your clothing size?

Why? You don't appear to know a damn thing about the American military yet that hasn't stopped you from going off.

 

Right, because you obviously know better given your vast amount of first hand experience.

 

And even then the comment was uninformed. The Brit and German troops I met were just as eager as their American counterparts.

 

Fair enough. To be fair, I was a little annoyed reading the thread in general.

I just don't like sweeping statements:

'joining the military is a sign of someone who is easily led by society'
'Government ordained murder'
'No stories about the murder of innocent civilians I bet'

I can see that you have tried to explain your thoughts a little fairer, but still...

 

A couple of ways of looking at the military.

My way also includes things that make me feel sick. But It doesn't cloud my entire opinion.

 

Not sure what those charts are trying to show, Odon.

 

One is black and white and the other is a little more complicated.

 

I can understand why. I can understand the sense of duty to the country. I can see why someone would think that violence was necessary. My boyfriend joined the military, and my best friend. They are both rational, intelligent people with multi-faceted personalities. I know why they joined. Money, needed a job, needed to pay for school. "For me the question would be: "what gaineth a man who gain the world and lose their sole." That was their decision. If I wanted to make a difference in the world I would try to join the peace corps, a job at a non-profit, etc.

I don't really think I'm on a high horse for having moral ideals. They are, after all, ideals. I realize that we don't live in a society where we can exist without a military. However. I would not support an institution that I know enough about to be leary of. I think the (American) military could be much less aggressive. Most importantly, I think a military ought to exist to DEFEND, not to attack. There are some countries who exist like that, currently.

My boyfriend was not an officer. He was honorably discharged. He just saw the was the military treated him, treated other people, what they stood for and how they acted overseas and became disgusted. He joined young out of desperation and didn't really understand what he was getting himself into. Simple.

Military or not, this gets under my skin. What I'm saying is news is news, it is wrong that your boss should selectively write news (write history). It happens. I get it. Still fucked up, still wrong.

I'm not sure why you keep calling me ignorant. Other than the fact that my views are different. For every proud service member or veteran that I know I also meet one who is downtrodden, disgruntled or turned off the war machine in general. No controversies, they didn't get fired. They just realized something...more. I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are plenty of veterans who share these views and you can't call of them ignorant, too. They know all too well how the system works.

And believe me, I've done my research. I grew up in a bit of a military family and a military town. I know how it works. I just don't think you can believe that someone might know as much as you and still not reach the same conclusion as you.

Oh, and the clothing size comment referred to another thread I posted. Silly attack from someone who had nothing better to attack, I reckon.

 

And yet you think we are brainwashed....

We lose our souls now?

You don't appear to know a damn thing about the military other than that sometimes those who wear the uniform need to get their hands dirty.

You mount that horse when you claim we are unable to think for ourselves and that others, like you, must show us the error of our ways. Morals are fine. I have morals of my own and they are, obviously, different than yours. That fact, however, doesn't mean I or those like me are incapable of thinking on our own.

Then your boyfriend couldn't have resigned. What did he do in the Air Force?

What I am saying is that your friend was never really a reporter, or part of the media.

I call you ignorant because you are. Your statements paint the picture of a person with a very, very vague sense of what life is like in the military. It isn't just that your views are different, it is also that they are uninformed.

I know there are vets who think like you. Unlike you, however, they got to that conclusion based on real world, first hand experience. That said, they could still be very ignorant. I know vets who think like you that never once had to get their hands dirty, or leave the country at all on deployment. Yet they, for some reason, think they have some sort of special insight into, or knowledge of, what exactly goes on in our military at war.

I believe you think you've down your research. No, you don't understand how it works. Everything you have posted belies that fact. At the end of the day you're not one of us and, therefore, you will never understand.

 

Sweeping statements, obviously. Sorry you were annoyed by my thread. Honestly I didn't read the whole thing--too much crap. It's hard to have a debate about that silly subject without hurting feelings.


In my mind I keep the "Be the Change" mantra close at hand. Obviously the things I am saying are not currently the "right" thing to say in America. They are lofty. I could accept that thisisthewaythingsare. I won't. I am not talking about the gray area that is reality. I am talking about the pure white ideal. If you operate and constantly give in to the gray area--nothing will ever change. I have to be what I wish the world were.

I acknowledge that corporations exist and have need in society right now, but I would refuse a job at one. I acknowledge that some people feel like they need to eat meat and that it serves cultural purposes, but I won't eat it.

I realize that we have a military and it is exactly what it needs to be right now. I won't join it or honor it.

 

lol at above

 

It's a quote. From the Bible. I'm sure if you thought about it for a moment you could see what I was getting at.

He was enlisted for 6 or 8 years and applied for early discharge. Recieved it.

This statement is fascinating. An excellent illustration of the "us vs. them" mentality that I find so prevalent. Not one of us. Not one of us.

So easy to dismiss someone like that. So very easy.

I understand more than you realize. You can keep calling me ignorant and go to bed tonight feeling proud and secure in you current/former position in the military. You defended yourself and that silly ignorant internet person can go shove it.

I'll keep doing more research, talking to more/different veterans (I have to talk to a lot of different people in my line of work). Learning more. Always am. This subject is a bit of a life passion of mine.

Obviously you think my opinion is less because I'm not "one of you". I've always found this man articulate and fairly appealing:

http://www2.answercoalition.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9020&news_iv_ctrl=0&abbr=VSMTF

He was "one of you."

You haven't done much other than insult me. That is ok.

And ok. That is what this thread is ABOUT. Obviously, I know a lot more than that but that isn't important. This thread isn't about touting the virtues of the military. Everything in life is infinitely more complex than what you can explain on an internet thread. There could be millions of pages of threads about this subject and still not everything would be said.

 

The military serves exactly the purpose that society gives it. Which is what it is currently doing. Which is what it always does. I would like to change that purpose.

 

Truth

 

I know what it was. The point you were trying to get at by using it was bullshit.

That isn't the same as resigning, as you originally claimed. If you knew what you were talking about you would have known that.

You have yet to demonstrate that understanding.

You're right, he was one of us. There are some holes in his story though.... That, and some of his points don't jive with what I saw and we were in the country at the same time.

Hi pot, I'd like you to meet kettle.

 

YouFreeMe

Why obviously?

Perhaps 'the other side' isn't talking about the grey area either.

Perhaps an alternative thing to have done was to start a thread about what you want changing.
Instead of wrapping it around a dilemma that you had resolved already:
" You know I don't support this decision, but it's your decision. I don't want to lose my best friend so you be damn careful... Okay?"

''That was pretty close to what I said. I just feel myself involuntarily detaching."

...and then disrespecting people with, well most of what you have typed.

What type of American military do you want?

I don't think eating meat is 'cultural' or 'serves cultural purposes' - a majority of animals eat meat

What type of military is it In reality? Talk about the grey area of reality.

How old are you, btw 20-24?

 

No real sense in those statements.

If, in your opinion, the military is exactly what it needs to be right now then there is nothing wrong with it and you don't have to get all hot and bothered.

If, however, you make that second statement then you are not only not explaining yourself but also making some kind of blanket remark without meaning.

Into what?

 

Bravo?

No insults, huh? Saying those of us who wear the uniform are unable to think for ourselves, are on board with murder, have no souls, and so on, isn't insulting? Yeah, man, you sure got it down.

 

Lets everyone just simmer down now...simmer! Someone is going to pop a blood vessel...:bomb: