Skip, There are a lot of people that would benefit from [further] developing critical thinking skills. There are many folks who are living in various stages of denial and they need to see overt examples before they begin to open thier minds up to dropping foolish preconcieved notions; before they begin to drop 'head strong' agendas so that they can begin to see further truth. It is important to not become foolish when subjected to foolishness, no matter how horrible. One great blessing will be that 'level heads' prevail. Peace, David .
Well when their last resort is to attack the messengers cause they can no longer defend their "great leader's" policies, you know the end is near for this bushit dynasty. The beauty of the situation is that since they all stuck so close together, when one falls they all do. The off year elections proved that Americans have had enough of conservative republicans and their bushit agenda. My only worry is that Bush start a war in desperation and Congress will be loathe to do their duty at that moment. The right wing religious nuts will probably seize the moment to proclaim that it's time for Apocalypse Now! and bring it about in desperation. American society can be resilient if freedoms are allowed to flourish. But that is not the case at the moment. America has been badly damaged by 5 years of Bushit and it's world standing is at an ALL-TIME LOW, as conservatives are just beginning to realize. The US can no longer get it's way ANYWHERE, and more and more people every day find reasons to hate Bush, hate America and Americans.
And it really makes me LOL, to see how far conservatives have to go to save their political lives. Attacking Clinton & Hillary & Michael Moore is hardly topical, and so irrelevant, people are shaking their heads in disbelief. In fact those who participated in this thread I guess didn't realize that it has NOTHING to do with the subject of this forum (please read the description again!). These days the conservatives are soooo far off-topic in most of their rants, it's indeed laughable! So I had to bring it back on topic for y'all.
You type really fast and I type really slow.. It is odd to watch. It is shocking, as I am, now, generally "numbed" to unecesaary fear, to see that such immense material power is under significant direction of those who are so unenlightened as to how to make things better; you can lead a horse to water but you can't make em drink. P/L, David .
thanks skip. i still think moore's a bit of a hypocrite anyway, but still, this does seem like a very sensible course of action to me. owning stock gives you at least some say in what a company does. but i think the smearing tactics are hardly reserved to the conservative political base.
Mynameiskc, Hi. You write, Can you a provide specific substantial example as to why you think that Moore is a hypocrite ? While I agree with your above statement there appears to be a disproportionate amount of 'smear' tatic activity being utilized by "the conservative base," can you provide a specific substantial example or examples of what you state above that have occurred in rececnt history ? Peace, David .
well, i think the fact that he owns 2k shares is a bit hypocritical, when in fact you don't require that many to get in to the shareholders meetings. that's pretty cut and dried, i think. but as for my statement that the smear tactics are not tactics exclusively used by the conservative base, i'm not sure why that requires justification. now, if i had said "everyone does is just as much and objecting to it's usage by the conservative base is stupid" well, that would require justification. but since i don't in fact believe it, i'm not sure what you're trying to get from me.
Skip you seem like a smart guy, why don't you just realize that moore is a worthless hypocrite, i'm not saying the things he says aren't true, a lot of what he says I agree with, but a million other more credible people say the same things that he does, just because moore owns stock doesn't make what he says any less true, it just means that he is a worthless hypocrite that has completely sold out, he would rather just make movies and money then be a muckraker anymore, he's rich and an asshole who just cares about himself and making money, those kind of people exist other places than just the right wing skip, rich people on both sides of the spectrum are complete assholes.
You are guilty Skip is Guilty I am guilty.. every mofo in this thread is guilty ..intentionaly or not.
Moore is not worthless at all. He's achieved so much already. He's good at digging for the dirt and displaying it for everyone to see. So of course he has lots of enemies. He's not worthless because he acts a focus for conservative ire. As I pointed out before, with conservatives attacking him at every opportunity, over such bullshit as this, only reveals their desperation. And at this point in the downfall of the Bush regime, the lame attempts to distract Americans from the failure of their leaders only serves to prove the moral bankruptcy of the Republican party. Likewise the lame attempts to distract our readers with stupid threads like this only shows how far removed from reality they are, that they still must blame people like Moore, and Streisand when they should REALLY be focused on the damage their glorious leader had done to the country and the world. These people are NOT patriots but TRAITORS to America. They are willing to let America go down the tubes, be reviled around the world, and instead attack the most patriotic people who blow the whistle. The tables have turned and karma is coming to those who've abused their power. And there is nothing the Republicans can do about it that matters.
<succintified version of what skip is sayin'> if the things he says are true how is he worthless? (moore rather) </succintified version of what skip is sayin'> (really I typed this before I actually read skips post and I added the tags later....)
He's worthless because hs is manipulative and a hypocrite, he makes his own fanbase and people who have his political views all look like idiots because he makes them all look like hypocrites and liars like himself.
Show us how he's a hypocrite and back it up with facts. Otherwise toot that horn somewhere else. Moore checks his facts, unlike most conservatives.
Skip, Like I said before, I agree with what Moore says politically, and personally I don't think he goes far enough. He talks about the evils of the right wing which are clear as the sky, but never talks about the cirmes of the lef, the farthest he goes is to say they are pussies which is true...but not far enough. Also, Why do you need me to show you hes a hypocrite, it's right on this forum, he SAID he didn't own a single share of stock, and guess what, he owns more than 5,000 from various companies that he slams and critisizes in his documentaries, how can he claim halliburton is evil (which it is) and then own thousands of shares of stock in that same company. You try to excuse this by saying that he needs to own share to be able to attend stockholder meetings for his documentaries, this is a lousy excuse, he doesn't need to own 2,000 shares of Halliburton to get into a stockholder meeting. He is making money off the same corporations he slams in his movies and books, how does that make the rest of the anti-war, anti-halliburton crowd look? Like a bunch of hypocrites who listen to a bunch of other, richer hypocrites. Michael Moore gives a bad name to activists and truthseekers everywhere.
Not only do some corporations require a minimum number of shares to attend shareholder meetings, many financial institutions require you purchase a minimum amount each transaction. Also since you "vote your shares", the more shares you own in a company THE LOUDER YOUR VOICE IS HEARD. There may be a 2,000 share minimum to be active in Halliburton. You still haven't provided the source of that quote that said he doesn't own any shares. When was that said? Quote another source besides the hipforums - please!
"His upcoming film "Sicko" pillories drug companies and HMOs" - So perhaps that's why he purchased stock in Eli Lilly. By owning stock you also get the company financial statements and have priority access to corporate executives & information. It's harder to kick a stockholder out of your office than some guy who just shows up from the street. Again, he's purchasing stock to use as part of his documentaries. I don't see any hypocrisy in that. Also how people invest their money is THEIR BUSINESS, unless they happen to be CIVIL SERVANTS who have severe conflicts of interest like CHENEY & BUSH! Save your vitriol for those who deserve it. btw, apparently he made that statement about not owning stocks in the book "Stupid White Men", which is many years old now, and prior to his research into Halliburton, which was likely the incentive to purchase their shares. You have to realize that if you call up these companies requesting info about their policies they'll probably ignore you. But remind them you're a stockholder and suddenly they can't ignore you.
Moore is to the left what FOX news is to the right. Propaganda is propaganda, regardless of who wrote it.
What you state is obvious. What is NOT obvious is why so many Americans vilify and turn people like Moore into enemies of the state. Dissent has been almost forbidden since 9/11, although that seems to be cracking now that republicans are starting to dissent themselves. Moore's propaganda attempts to sway the masses towards criticism of the status quo, the war in Iraq, the Bush Administration's incompetence, and corporate malfeasance. These are symptomatic problems that need to be addressed by the American public since the politicians seem unwilling to tackle them. By making enemies of Moore, the right-wing propaganda seeks to divide America into us and them, rather than trying to find common ground to solve the very problems that people like Moore point out. This only perpetuates the bushit we have been enduring the past 5 years. By criticising Moore, the left & the right do a grave disservice to the practice of dissent in America. Sure he has his problems, he's only human, but at least he has devoted his life to blowing the whistle on the rich and powerful. That is what matters. The rest is just sour grapes at his success. The face of American Foreign Policy: