Michael Moore Hates America

Discussion in 'Politics' started by kayatree, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. kayatree

    kayatree Member

  2. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Thanks! Those were both very interesting.

    One thing that bothers me is that some people will believe everything they hear, as long as it originates from the side of the political and ideological spectrum they occupy. People should question the content of a Michael Moore "documentary" every bit as much as they would if Rush Limbaugh had made a documentary.

    It is hard to take Michael Moore seriously, and I would probably have more respect for him if he chose to call Bowling for Columbine a satire instead of a documentary, which it is clearly not. I actually liked Michael Moore up until I saw BFC. I loved some of his previous documentaries, in particular Roger & Me. But Bowling for Columbine is far from a documentary since much of its content relies on facts twisted to fit Moore's ideals. Or flat-out mistruths altogether.

    Some people will say BFC is about gun-control, others will say it's about the fear the media instills in people. Maybe it's a little bit of both. I think it dealt with the former far more than it did the latter. If anyone likes to instill fear in people, it's Michael Moore. Moore wants you to think that the US is some land of gun-crazed hicks who go around shooting each other for no apparant reason. And Canada is so much safer and better, and after all, NOBODY locks their doors there because the people there are just so great and so peaceful and loving (what a crock).

    I am a Libertarian and I support people's right to own guns, considering they are responsible people who don't have a long history of committing violent crimes. I personally don't own any guns myself, nor have I ever even handled a gun in my life. But for Moore to insinuate that because of a few isolated incidents the whole country has a major gun problem which extends beyond urban areas is just blasphemous and completely untrue.

    Then you have Moore's arrogance factor. Instead of blaming the people who should be blamed, Moore blames people who have nothing whatsoever to do with the events Moore tries to blame people like Charlton Heston and Dick Clark as being responsible for. Plus, Moore handles himself in such an amateurish way, just look at the way he treated Charlton Heston at his own home. Now I am no fan of Charlton Heston by any means, but you don't go to somebody's house after being invited and proceed to treat them with such disrespect. And if you are trying to push a message across to the people watching the documentary, you don't act like a jerk. His actions almost immediately discredit and contradict whatever message he is trying to convey to his audience. Anyway, this is the point where I lost respect in Moore completely and started to see him as nothing more than a cheap propagandist.

    Then, I love how Moore tries to place blame on Dick Clark for that little girl being shot. Moore blames the shooting on the fact that the child's mother who shot the little girl was made to work at one of Clark's restaurants as part of a work-for-welfare program. Meanwhile, the kid was living in a drug house. The mother was obviously irresponsible to begin with for letting her son live in such an environment, but somehow that's Dick Clark's fault? Interesting.

    Moore is a typical Democrat. He's not a Libertarian, or a Green, or an Independent. He's a mainstream Democrat who supported Gen. Wesley Clark when he was still in the race. And we all know that Wesley Clark was the most Republican of all the candidates. Who does Moore think he's fooling?

    I do plan on seeing Fahrenheit 9/11 when it opens on the 25th, but I will always go into a Michael Moore documentary knowing what a propagandist he is. And he makes a lot of money doing what he does, too, which is another thing people should not forget.
     
  3. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    i hate america... looks like we got a lot in common.
     
  4. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

    I don't think moore was saying that guns was the root of our problems. He was just pointing out that we have a super-huge homicide by gun rate in our country, areound 8,900 more homicides by gun than any other industrialized country.

    I don't think he was blaming the guns...he was just pointing out the numbers and searching for answrs as to why the number is so high.
     
  5. kayatree

    kayatree Member

    Exactly... he was pointing out statistics that implied that guns were the root of the problem. If you tell someone that there are X number of gun related deaths in country Y in a year - the assumption will be that guns are problem via deductive reasoning. And of course, using Canada as reference, they are not.

    kayatree
     
  6. kayatree

    kayatree Member

    I fucking hate that... I HATE that. The arrogance is overwhelming. Really.

    Why don't you leave then? Go someplace else where they'll let you bitch and moan about the things you ethically or personally disagree with openly... go ahead then - I mean, if you hate it so much.

    kayatree
     
  7. WeeDMaN

    WeeDMaN a pothead

    Michael Moore is a genius, I loved his book "Dude,Wheres my country" I have also seen "Bowling for Columbine" Which I thought wuz an ok movie. In my opinion, Bush has a clever plan that he wont tell to the public. just like
    Operation
    Iraqi
    Liberation
    (O.I.L)
    kinda funny lol. But I dont believe everything Bush says either. In my opinion, they all believe in Allah, they will all kill for allah, they are potential terrorists in my eyes, if Richard Nixon where prez, he'd bomb thier country into the ground.
     
  8. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    Are you talking about your own arrogance?

    because I am planning on leaving the country... but just becuase i dont like the country doesnt mean i have to leave it... a lot of people want to help their country so they stay in it...

    "if you dont like america, get the fudge out"

    haha come on..

    Nationalism is a disease, i think you need a check up
     
  9. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?


    First, you must take a few things into consideration...

    1)America has a much larger population than the other "industrialized nations."

    2)America's culture is far more diverse.

    3)Most gun violence that occurs in the US is in large urban areas with high poverty rates.

    How come Moore doesn't talk about the thug culture that influences so much of the violence we see on city streets across this nation? It's because Moore is your typical PC Democrat who says not what free-thinking people want to hear, but rather what other Democrats such as himself want to hear. Moore is simply a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party.
     
  10. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    Mui, so much of the garbage you spew is the same shit I hear coming from most so-called radical teenage leftists who know nothing about politics, but rather are in it only for the scene. Are you still going through that Che Guevara, commie armband phase? Try saying something intelligent and informative for a change, instead of the same immature babble I always see coming from you.

    Kayatree is right, and I don't think she's being nationalistic. She's being realistic. If you hate it here so much, stop complaining about it while doing absolutely nothing to change things, just get the fuck out! Move to fucking Croatia or something.

    Just because you hate a country's government, doesn't mean all of its people deserve to be hated, too. Why should any country be hated because of what a few people do? It's senseless! It's no different from the Americans who hate all Muslims because of what only a select few have done.
     
  11. dreamweaver

    dreamweaver Member

    I really don't think Michael Moore was even implying that guns are the root of the problem. From what I got out of Bowling for Columbine, he was placing full blame on the fear that the media instills in americans. Thats one thing I liked about the documentary, I never saw anything in it that suggested guns are to blame. If you'll remember, he pointed out that Canadian citizens own just as many guns as Americans do, then went own to show that their media is very different from ours.
     
  12. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

    rat dear, although i agree with you that dick clark is not responsible for the child's shooting, please remember that welfare mothers have very, very limited options for responsibly parenting their children. i was a welfare mother myself for a few years, don't forget. it is not something i am proud of, but it's not something i feel i need to be ashamed of either. day care is way too often not provided as part of these programs, and when it is available, it's often denied anyway unless the mother has a strong advocate to assist her in applying. it could be that she and the child simply had no other place to live. was she irresponsible for getting herself in that situation in the first place? possibly. but it's difficult for me to judge, because in many ways, either child could have been my child. we need to stop blaming mothers for the failures of a system that clearly isn't working.
     
  13. Maverick

    Maverick Banned

    I saw Micheal Moore on public access television speaking in Austin, Texas once.
    *shudders*
    I could definantly use him as a punching bag.
     
  14. backtothelab

    backtothelab Senior Member

    -moore has some good things to say, sometimes. I think he's horribly unprofessional. He's a slob, really. I think heston hosting the NRA meeting in colorado was a load of shit( i honestly don't think much of the man after that), but that was still no reason to be an asshole when he invites you into his home. I thought it was interesting when he asked the sagely advice of some canadian kids skipping school. pretty fucking stupid.
     
  15. metro

    metro self-banned

    I don't like welfare.

    Anyways..

    Mui, are you one of those people who sees the US as a greedy, arrogant, spoiled country w/no regard for the rest of the world? Where do you get that idea?[​IMG]

    I hate our gov't.
    The people who live in a country make up that country, we are fat polluting people, those are just the facts. I'm not so much, and maybe no one in this forum is either, but as a whole...Also, we elect out gov., how can people not blame us?
    Don't leave though mui, stay and help us change for the better.
     
  16. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

    you don't hate it as much as i do, i promise you that.
     
  17. I agree wholeheartedly.

    I'd like to read your explanation of why you consider it to be a satire instead of a documentary. Be sure to define key terms.

    What mistruths? Be specific.

    Hmm...something about that statement rubs me wrong. It appears that you think guns aren't a "major" problem because the violence disproportionately occurs among urban people (read: blacks) shooting each other.

    I totally agree with you there. I hated that scene, and I thought Moore came off as a dick. It further ruined the movie for me.

    I think this part is best taken more symbolically, as a reference to the interconnectedness of all things.

    I, too, enjoyed Moore's older films. I don't know why people got so excited over BFC. In the end it had very little to say other than that the media is sensationalist and racist, which I believe to be common knowledge among people who ponder such things. I suppose the film would have greater impact on the more "popular" audience it drew as compared to his previous works.

    I personally don't care much for Moore. I enjoy his rabblerousing, but that's it. He's a comic figure who happens to present some thought-provoking issues.
     
  18. I expect better than that from you. That's really weak. That's the kind of response I expect from right wing assholes.
     
  19. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

    This isn't about welfare moms as much as it is moms not taking any responsibility for themselves and their children.

    I know you're a good mother, Lizzie. You don't have to tell me what it's like. Your children are homeschooled, which to me shows more than enough that you care a great deal for your kids. I wish my mom homeschooled me.

    Welfare moms are no different from most mothers who work their asses off just to support their family. Being a welfare mother doesn't exempt that mother from having responsibility over her children.

    Basically, I think what happened would have happened regardless if the mother was at work or not. Like I said, it later turned out that the child who shot the little girl was living in a drug house and was surrounded by drugs and guns. Being on welfare and adequately raising your children (this includes providing a stable environment) are hardly related at all.
     
  20. Mui

    Mui Senior Member

    What fucking "scene" There is no fuckign radical leftist political "scene"... i forgot, rat... your the all knowing, all informed... you definitely know about politics, as I... i just dont... how can i be more like you?

    Why dont you explain why its bullshit rather than using age and your all informed ego to slam people down.

    no commie armbands for me... I've yet to see you say something intelligent/informative... immature babbel that you always see coming from me?

    I think you've failed to realize your own hypocricy, but you seem to do a good job at bitching about other people's.

    Thats fucking stupid. Who are you to tell a person if they are doing nothing? Because you read my posts on the forum? What have you done to change things, rat? Anything? and i thought i said I was moving out this damn country... because im sick of assholes like rat and kaya who think they are riding a tougher bull than the rest of the world.. and are on some higher intelligent ground..

    Yes, rat can see into my life. He obviously knows im doing nothing to change things, and that all i do is complain about things.
    Are you the man that has been hiding in the bushes?

    No fucking shit. Did I say that all americas people deserve to be hated? No. I said I hate america... america, is a country... a government... i hate the people who control it, i hate what it stands for... i hate what it imposes on the rest of the world... i dont think everyone in it should be hated though... no one thinks that... thats fucking retarded...


    I think you have an ego problem,
    Mui.

    P.S. 5 more years isnt that much experience.
     

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