Mescaline Citrate

this guy is great. it's nice to see an active participant. your works looks great.

 

Thanks, but all of this was done long ago by someone who isn’t me. I am simply passing on the information.

Any extraneous citrate salts should be harmless.

When starting with fresh cactus, one could grind it up, put it into a jug with water, lye, and xylol, then follow the recipe from there.

 

Just my opinion:

Any other A/B extraction is no more difficult than this. Many "teks" out there make things seem alot more complex than they are. I would encourage forming citrate salts, as they are food safe, but HCl is cheaper, easier to work with, and easier to dose.

I'm not talking shit about this method, it would work solid. Just know there are options. Also, HDPE is much easier and cheaper to obtain than glass, and lasts much longer. That shit is everywhere.

 

That was my original point. Most other teks are convoluted and some include unnecessary steps. This is nothing new, it's just pared down to necessary steps and the explanation is simplified. That's the only reason this method appears to be different or shorter.

Glass is nice if only for the throw-back feel to it. Kind of a Frankenstein/Owsley mixing bathtub gin idea. You have to have fun. Besides, apple cider is good for you.

True, the potency can fluctuate slightly from extraction to extraction when the excess citric acid doesn't evaporate off as the HCL would, but there hasn't been a problem with it. It's always in the same ballpark when using the same cactus and same amount of acid. Besides, the same dose can affect the same person slightly differently at different times. (Especially when they're eating the occasional mushroom every now and then.) Also, the margin of error is such a wide one with this stuff that rough dosing is usually spot on. That's one of the things that's so great about it.

 

i can vouch for this technique,

 

I edited the recipe. I decided to drop the level of citric acid to 1/2 teaspoon from 3/4 teaspoon. If your cactus is so powerful that it demands more, then adjust accordingly. I just don't like the excessive citric acid throat squeeze. It's safe and all, but the smoother ride the better.

 

i love the taste of the citric acid

 

If you don't mind citric acid, then there's no problem. Better to be safe than sorry. You could even skip days during the last couple of extractions to make sure you get all the mescaline you can out of the cactus.

Something else you can try is putting the collection water into a little jar and letting the mescaline citrate crystals precipitate out for a day from each collection. (Since the alkaloid salts are at least 80% mescaline citrate, that will be the first to crystalize.) Putting the jar into the fridge a couple of times actually helps the crystals form. Then, carefully remove the old water with a long dropper. Add some new distilled water to the crystals, swish them around, and pour that into your evaporation dish. The dry needle-like crystals are snow white and crunchy. Also, there is no residual moisture for 2-3 days. Once the crystals are dry, they are bone dry. The effects are cleaner and more transparent. Comes up faster, leaves quicker. Definitely worth trying at least once.

 

^that's good info right there c123. Can you give some numbers on the "ideal" Ph for both the basic and acidic steps? And just curious, what about the freebase form, I never hear about mescaline freebase? What is the Mp of mescaline citrate vs hcl?

 

1/2 teaspoon of citric acid into 1/2 cup water makes a solution pH2. After the water is collected again, it is at pH6 or 7 (nearly neutral), so all three acid groups are neutralized, making it more potent and less flavorful.

I'm not sure about the pH of the lye-cactus solution, sorry.

Mescaline free base MP 35-36°, BP 180°. I don't know about the salts, but considering that the precipitated crystals were separated from the rest of the liquid, the needle-like appearance, and the theory of crystal formation, I feel confident in making the claim that it is relatively pure mescaline citrate.

 

could this method be used replacing the citric acid with hydrochloric acid, if so how would the outcome differ?

 

For more information on other extraction methods and alternate salts (and how to calculate how much acid you need for the amount of product you plan to end up with), read the recipes on erowid. This thread is on mescaline citrate.

But, it might be cool if you'd try it and start a different thread on it.

 

might try with small amounts and just experiment.

does anyone know though, am i correct in thinkin that excess hcl acid wille evap. away with the water?

 

I would have to agree. I just performed this extraction and I have excess citric acid that still makes it to much to capsulize. I'm still waiting to test my product. It looks so clean I can't see how I missed anything. but I think next round Im goin HCL to see if I could capsulize and get some gauge of alkaloidial weight. I am going with 10 drops of HCL to 250ml distilled water. 1 tblsp NAoH per 150ml liquid volume. 1/3 xylene.

 

my mesc. cirtate took about a full g to get a good dose so still alot of acid left over, then again i used too much of it but it doesnt bother me because i like the taste, i would just like to be able to guage the potency of the cactus more accurately.

 

You can get a fairly pure product if you collect the crystals that precipetate out. It's potent and predictable. One 00-capsule of properly made mescaline citrate will put you into another world.

The first picture shows the crystals that precipitated out overnight from one extraction. The second picture shows all of the crystals gotten from 100g of cactus. The total weight of the crystals that precipitated out of solution was 4.8g. There was more product that evaporated to weigh .65g, but that was just the crystals that were collected and then dissolved and recrystalized. The dry mescaline citrate came out really puffy due to the virtue of its needle-like crystaline structure, but it crushes down.

You can't get more alkloids from the water than it contains, so excess citric acid is totally your preference. But, I don't think dosing is that big of a deal even if you had to stir a spoonfull into some orange juice.

(BTW, too much HCL will burn it a little brown, but the excess will evaporate away. The fumes are poisonous, so use ventilation.)

 

as always you've been a whealth of knowledge, thanks again man..

 

So we all know proper dosing, here are the weights.

mescaline freebase: 211 g/mol
citric acid : 192 g/mol

And for comparison,
HCl : 36.5 g/mol

So now we can figure comparable doses.

HCL always makes a 1:1 bond with mescaline freebase molecules. Citric acid on the other hand, has three possible bonds. That means that the overall weight and potency to the citrate salt can vary.

300mg mescaline HCl is equivalent to:

300 x (211+192)/(211+36.5) = 488.5 mg mescaline citrate with only one bond linked.

Or...

300 x (211+64)/(211+36.5) = 333 mg mescaline citrate fully saturated with 3 mescaline freebase molecules per citric acid molecule.

Here's a simple chart:

It's between...

HCL x 1.63 = M.C.
M.C. x .61 = HCL

And...

HCL x 1.11 = M.C.
M.C. x .90 = HCL

The sulfate is again going to vary because it has two possible links.

EDIT: After doing some figuring, I've calculated that the acid is 2/3 bonded with freebase molecules (in the precipitated crystals that are collected).

If we cut the weight of citric acid used by 1/3 to 128g/mol, we get…

300mg mescaline HCL x (211+128)/(211+36.5) = 426mg mescaline citrate.

HCL x 1.42 = M.C.
M.C. x .70 = HCL

 

And as for the question of return...

Four extractions were done, crystals were collected, separated, and evaporated totalling 3.25g. The remaining acid water (still nearly saturated with alkaloids) was used for another fifth run which yeilded 1.55g more crystals. The water that was left over from that has left some crystals and a sticky film that slowly dried to .65g.

So all in all, 5.45g of mesclaine citrate (and other alkaloids) came back from 100g of dry cactus skin.

 

And one last thing that needs mention is the LD50, or median lethal dose of orally administered mescaline.
According to Wikipedia, it's:

• 212 mg/kg i.p. (mice)
• 132 mg/kg i.p. (rats)
• 328 mg/kg i.p. (guinea pigs)

So if we take the lowest number of 132 mg/kg, and figure for a 120lb (55 kg) person, we get a figure of 7260 mg, or a quarter ounce.

In any case, it is so far out of normal recreational doseage range (24x), you wouldn't be able to mistakenly poison yourself.