meat

Have you ever seen wild chickens... they do the same thing and so do free range chickens... my parents had chickens when I was a kid... plus they attacked me when I was two. chicken isn't a very violent dumb animal.

And like I said, you have to be conscious to go crazy.

 

How can you be so naive to think the real injustices that happen in the world today, are happening to chicken?

 

screw you, i caught him fair and square. you get your own hand hunted cow.

 

if i was stuck in a cage and going to die, hell, i'd do that for fun! (then again, im not a chicken..)

 

What do you you mean by that?

 

Yeah, but they aren't stuck in a cage.As for chickens being conscious, how do you know thy're not? They've got a brain too (which usually ends up in chicken nuggets) , eventhough it's just a small one.

 

Or this even:

Mmmmmmmmm BBQ.

 

I don't have anything against butchering, it's the slaughterhouses I don't like.
And I care about those things you posted too (eventhough I'm GERMAN not american). It's just that I worry about more things than you do.

 

Maybe you are too psychotic to care about animals and be concerned about the immense suffering they are forced to endure. Maybe you are too stupid to care about the biosphere, the destruction of which shall ultimately be the death of us all. But I wonder if you care for your own immediate health. If you do, then click here. And here.

 

hmmm....yes, 14....AND IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED I'M GERMAN,DUMBASS!!

I guess your the stupid one then.

 

My erroneous friend. Your ignorance abounds.

The problem with animal abuse is a rife one. It is an immediate problem of the highest urgency.

Humanity does not need any animal derived foods whatsoever. They tend to be used for economical reasons, and of greed. I have been vegan for over a decade, and I am still alive and healthy. Carl Lewis was on a vegan diet when he won his Olympic gold running medal.

I fear you lack altruism. You also appear to be racist, in favor of the human race. Many are, I often wonder as to why. I do ask, but they never seem able to provide me with a valid response.

The production of animal based foods requires far more energy to be expended than plant based foods. Animal derived foods therefore are the cause for much pollution, of the air and of the land. Far more time is spent on the production of meat, as far more plants than would be needed for a vegan diet, are grown in order to feed the animals. Also animals require a lot of attention.

So instead of spewing out unfounded drivel about abandoning the cause for animals in favor of [your borne of racism] human causes, bear this in mind; The problem with animal cruelty is one which can be solved overnight by those responsible for it. All they have to do is just stop. That's right. They do not have to do anything else other than cease their murderous ways. Once they have done that and converted to veganism, they would have far more time for other causes. Plus, many of the other causes would be eliminated and greatly reduced for they are a direct result of the health problems and diseases which are directly attributed to eating animals. See my above posted links for more information on that subject.

It is a shame that so many consider the animals cause so irrelevant. Those who do tend to me misinformed, ignorant, deluded, and afraid of reality.

 

I agree with you, Idealogue, except on one point: humans need b12, and not many plant foods contain it. Therefore, we were born omnivores. NOW, before the meat lovers say something crappy like: " see? See? Veg*nism isn't good for you......blah, blah, blah,yadda, yadda!" There's this thing you call a supplement,- you take it if your lacking certain minerals / vitamins ( although most meat lovers have no knowledge of this whatsoever.).
Otherwise you're absolutely right. Cruelty to animals is not needed. As for the people who are starving in this world, starch has more calories, and vegetables/fruits have more vitamins/minerals. Meat is, therefore, no help to them,much. And the rest you said, Idealogue, is so true ( to lazy to rewrite everything).

Now, one more question: Why are all you meat lovers so selfish and ignorant?

 

We're neither selfish or ignorant, we just don't follow your lifestyle choice, and that doesn't give you the right to call someone you disagree with selfish or ignorant. Its not very productive to argue with someone about their diet, particularly when you engage in the despicable misinformation game that many vegan advocay groups like PETA engage in. here are just a few examples...

Point 1: Hormonal injection: Any animal natuarally has hormones and thousands of chemials in it, I dont
see why injecting an animal with extra proteins and hormones to increase its size (If an animal is larger, less have to be killed to meet demand) is unnatural, I think the point he
was trying to raise was lack of dietary sustainence.

Point 2: Dietary sustainence: While its completely true that you can meet the basic amount of protein a person needs with a veggie diet, Iron deficancy is a major problem with a vegitarian diet. I'm sure you've hear that certain vegetables contain adequete amounts of iron, while this is true, Iron doesn't metabolise from vegetable sources very effeciently,
If your a vegetarian, you need to take supplements. (not very natural, but I don't have a problem with that) b12 cannot be obtained by a vegan diet without supplements, and neither can vitamin D. If you're a vegetarian, you should be very careful to eat wisely, and vegetarianism isn't a inherently more healy alternative to eating an omnivorous diet. Please consider your dietary needs before doing anything rash. its very dificult to maintain a proper diet without eating meat, and you should consult a doctor.

point 3: land usage: Another falacy is that if nobody consumed meat, we would be able to feed the entire world. This is naive and simplistic. Primarily you should consider that two thirds of the land mass on earth is not suitable for farming, and this is the land that is primarly used for graising animals, raised for food purposes.

Something else you should consider is that even if the land the US converted from grasing teritory to farming land (which wouldn't be very good for the enviorment) we still wouldnt be able to feed the world with it. shipping that much produce would be astomoically expensive, and even if it were possible from an economical standpoint, most vegetables spoil fairly quickly, and wouldn't be able to be shipped and distributed halfway across the world anyway.

I could go on and on, but the morality issue... ethics are subjective... you may think my eating animal is immoral, while I think your lying to convert others to your veggie cult is immoral. I'll talk more about the moral issues later, but trying to force someone into your lifestyle choice by lying and calling them stupid and selfish isn't right.

Of course we value our species more then others, why wouldn't we... you veggies do it to... you value animal species more then plant species, I doubt many of you would live in a house invested with rats. Would you move or call an exterminator, or maybe just let them drag their disease ridden bellies over your food?

Wrong! Most people living cozily in the US and the UK would be ok switching to a veggie diet... but a lot of the world doesn't have that privalege. People in the third world farm in the land they can and they use unfarmable land to graise animals. The destitute people can't exactly afford to buy supplements they need. Thats a really elitest attitude, thinking you can go into an enviorment you know nothing about, and telling people that meat is causing their starvation. The vegetarian 'conversion' segment is very naive and elitest.

Its easy to call yourself an altruist... its a little harder to be one.

Thats all I feel like typing for now... I'll talk more about this later.

 

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I have never seen a healthy looking vegetarian, they just look sickly to me.

 

I'm a thai boxer, and I consider meat to be the source of my power. :H

 

The reason I'm calling you selfish isn't because you eat meat, it's because you don't give a crap about animals suffering due to the meat industries, instead, you devour it like it's no big deal that animals are getting tortured, as long as you get to have your meat. Why eat meat at all? Sure, it may taste good (for you), but there are meat substitutes that taste the same as the real thing.

And what the hell do you mean with lying? What have I said so far that you consider lying?

 

If an animals going to die, its going to die, and most animals aren't tortured... sure its small and dirty, but they're killed quickly...

These animals live in conditions that much of the third world does... I find that much more concerning.

Plus meat substitues don't taste the same... maybe to your desperate tounge, but the difference is obvious to me.

What I never said you were lying... I was talking about certain animal advocacy groups (PETA). Sorry if it sounded like that, I wasn't accusing you of lying.

 

It's okay, I should be sorry for accusing you.sorry...


Anyways, it would be nice if the torture was quick (or even better, not at all.),
but that's not true. As I explained thoroughly a few pages ago. Sure if it's going to die it's going to die, but the torturing really isn't necessary.

BTW, I knew a woman who had a husband who LOVED his hamburgers and stuff, he was a typical meat lover.She fed him on a substitute diet for 2 months, he never noticed until someone slipped it. And believe me, he was pissed. >.>

I used to love poultry, when I became vegetarian I ate a turkey slice substitute, didn't taste the difference ( besides that it wasn't that fatty...).

So, IMO I consider it tastes the same as real meat.

 

Well a lot of people (including myself) don't think that meat substitute tastes at all like the real thing. I can't stand the stuff.

And like Lodui said, people all over the world suffer in conditions comparable to that of the animals we eat as food. Shouldn't they come first before we go off on a mighty crusade against meat eaters?

 

Every single nutrient (vitamins, minerals, protein, etc, etc.) Is available from non-animal sources. Without exception.

B12 is formed by micro-organisms. Some say that the human body manufactures all that it needs itself, see the recent thread on B12: http://hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30396 (second post down).

B12 is available in supplements. Vegan supplements, in fact. The B12 in vegan supplements is not derived from animals. This alone is proof that humans can get all the vitamin B12 which they require for good health, without having to harm or kill pain feeling sentient creatures.

B12 is also available in a huge variety of fortified foods. One does not need to eat any animal products whatsoever in order to consume the amount of B12 which their body needs.