Marine proudly admits murdering and torturing innocent Iraqi civilians!!!

um well, sorry guys...but LickHERish happens to be correct. All the facts back up the "big words". "big words", as you call them, are generally acquired from reading informative books written by those with the balls to tell the truth. Maybe you should stop spouting out your FOX-fed propaganda and learn something for once in your conditioned lives.

 

you still have to give them some credit, though they sometimes admit that they're bullies (people in the U.S. military) towards people who don't deserve it, at least they think they're serving some longterm good purpose. It's not like they're evil, they really do believe that in the end, they're working for the common good. The sad thing is, they don't realize that their bosses' bosses' bosses are NOT, which itself would open up a pandora's box that these hapless drones would rather not touch.

 

LickHERish ,
You are obviously not a dummy, and at no point did I insinuate you were.. But I have been working abroad quite a bit in the last 15 years. I have seen things which I hope I don't have to see again, but more importantly I have seen and spoken to the normal everyday person during my 18 months in the middle east . I lived in a luxury hotel but spent my days with Iraqi and Iranian families, I thanked my lucky stars that I had the option to leave when ever it got to much for me, equally it saddened me to hear the sickening stories of lost family and friends to the regime. They wondered why the Americans did nothing to help them ( I'm not American by the way !). When I heard that we the west had at last gone in I was overjoyed... The joy turned to tears when I saw what a mess we made of it ! I clearly see the mess as does everyone, I expected our governments to have a slightly better plan than they did.. Now me complaining that we should never have gone in is hypocritical and down right point less, as it will not take time back. But supporting an effort to make it less disastrous seems preferable ... Just pulling the troops out is NOT an option as I know what the consequences for the average Joe will be.... Yes I know it's not good now !! but it will get better, then in the future I hope the people of the region will look back and think the sacrifice justified the result, as we revere the people who lost there lives fighting the second world war.....
by the way where do you get your top notch info from, because as I have said before we only know what we see on TV and in the papers... as I have never lived in the US I'm subjected to totally anti US media every day, I have lived in around 50 countries in the last 15 years,not surprisingly rarely have I heard nice comments regarding the US or UK, yet I witness the imitation of US life every where, and regardles of their brovardo most people would move there if they had half a chance.. this suggests bitterness because of envy rather than true hatred, Yet what most of the world is envious of you chastise and belittle at every turn. you truly must experience living in a repressed country to understand how luck you really are ......

 

I still say its bullshit. You can wrap it up in a pretty box all you want, but to imply that the men and women of the US military are simply bullies and mercenaries still reeks of bullshit. My "conditioned life". HA. I understand perfectly why so many people are opposed to the war in Iraq. Hell IM against us being there. I personally feel like we should get our guys out of every nation where they arent wanted and that we should have let the Iraqi people deal with Saddam or not deal with him if thats what they wanted. I work with some wonderful human beings. I also work with some jackasses. But none of my comrades have gone to war because we thought it would be fun. Im sure 99% of our forces would rather be home than in the desert risking their lives. Thats why my vote went to John Kerry. Thats why my vote will more than likely go to the democrat in 2008(hopefully it will be Hillary).

You cannot take what you read and apply it to each and every member of our armed forces. I look at each and every person as an individual. I love people as individuals not because of the group they belong to. I dont care what color you are, what your sexual preference is, who you pray to, what your gender is or where you choose to work. If you dont agree with US policy thats fine. I dont agree with it either. But I DO believe that a strong military is necessary to protect our nation. To think that our peace marches and candlelight vigils will keep America safe is beyond ignorant. Human beings have been fighting each other since we learned how to throw stones. Chances are we will keep fighting each other and if thats the case it helps to have the most rocks.

And may the invisible man or woman you pray to keep you and those you love safe tonight. Amen.

 

Lets see, in the last few decades Israel has withdrawn from occupied parts of Egypt and Lebanon, is planning a withdrawal from Gaza, and has held negotiations for withdrawal from much of the west bank. Meanwhile, Saddam has invaded Iran and Kuwait (which he planned on annexing), and launched unprovoked attacks on Saudi Arabia and Israel, while waging war against his own citizens.

Yet despite a total contradiction of these obvious facts, you think Israel wants to conquer the middle east but not Saddam. With logic that limp, I'm afraid the automatic applause of RevoMystic is about the most you can hope for around here.

 

US navy, I'm glad you chose to show your human side in your last post! May you learn to make it be your ONLY side

Pointbreak, I assure you that my "applause" is not automatic, but the result of learning facts. What you just spewed out about Saddam being the most dangerous maniac in the world is, well, untrue. (I'm still glad he's out cuz of what an incompetent and uncaring leader he was--not to mention he did bu$iness with Rumsfeld, et al). But sorry, you're logic is convoluted at best.

 

I didn't say anything of the sort. Why did you feel the need to make that up?

Also, you haven't explained how any of my facts or logic are wrong. So are you a cheerleader or can you really respond?

 

Sadly your wrong !!!!
That's exactly what he wanted, How you can draw any other conclusion is utterly beyond me !!!!, once again you have proved my suspicions, I suspect you trawl through the masses of news reports, disregarding anything that does not coincide with your sinister US wants to dominate the world plot !! Here's a news flash for you ,,, they already do, I for one am glad it's the US that's in charge rather that the only two alternatives, i,e. china or what was the USSR... at least we get to live reasonably free lives and are afforded freedoms that you just don't get in the aforementioned countries ... Back to saddam .. He was a very rich man !! Getting more money mint very little to him, what he wanted was power, more importantly he wanted to go down in history as the man who concurred the west, He wanted the Muslim world to remember him as the great slayer of Satan !! He believed in the hype his loyal men were telling him ,,"you are the greatest leader you can't be beaten..." His only goal was to buy a weapon which will be powerful enough to hold the west off, then systematical take over the middle east, once he did that , he basically controlled the world.......

 

Oh how you've swallowed the lies and propaganda. Clearly you have zero knowledge of the true underlying geopolitical causal factors for our invasion of Iraq, but rather prefer (like PB) to accept the soundbites of neocon ideologues in their quest for global empire building.

That you equally ingore the writing on the wall of their repetition of history (ala the rise of Fascist Germany) with incremental dismantling of those freedoms you appear to take for granted, demonstrates how little all your supposed worldly expereince has taught you about geo-political reality.

Join the happy bandwagon of trolls which have been steadily overrunning this forum (as they have all too many others). In due course youll be scratching your head wondering just how you could have so blindly railed against those who sought to warn you of the agenda presently in play when the economic blackmail commences in earnest.

Saddam's only errors were nationalising Iraqi oil production and subsequently adopting the Euro standard for Iraqi oil sales. Absent those factors, Washington would have maintained the same solid relationship that it currently maintains with even more heinous dictators like Karimov.

 

Iraqi oil was nationalised over thirty years ago. Your knowledge of history is pathetic.

 

There you go again ! because I don't see it your way I'm the ignorant one ? I wont suggest your ignorant, because ignorance suggests lack of knowledge, I would say you are a selective antagonist, you are simply against the establishment regardless of the situation ...

Germany was a country that had it's sights on world domination. If we had stepped in quicker we could have avoided the whole thing. except they had people like you in them days to, so we had to let it go way to far before anyone intervened for fear of thinking we were being unfair to the poor guy (Hitler) .... + the US is in control of the world and you still have amazing freedoms, Had germany gained control you would have had none......

Only when you loose what you have now, will you understand what you had.... Bringing the government down will only leave a vacuum for something else to fill, I have seen what those something else's are and you don't want that..

What !!!!!! for your information NATIONALIZATION is supposed to mean " for the benefit of the nation " as for this being his only errors!!! you make me sick ... never have I heard a genocidal maniac trivialize so blatantly in my entire life,, what are you going to do for an encore suggest Hitler was misunderstood or Stalin was just having a bad day !!!!!

 

Lick
Please tell me how a president (Clinton ) could be brought down, just because he got a BJ from an office intern ???? Surly if they are so powerful they could have hushed that slight indiscretion up... Yet you firmly believe the same establishment can get away with something of this magnitude...
If nothing else
Please answer this question...

 

Now there is an interesting demonstration of the failure to comprehend the point being made. Let us simplify for you then. Hitler achieved power because of excuse artists like yourself not those who opposed the soundbites and lies (duly propogated without question nor investigation by the media of the day, as it is in the US today) such as myself and many others here.

No, soliloquoy, you buy lock stock and barrel into the flag waving myth of US goodness and justice in all its endeavours, failing again to recall the expose of our last major failed war of aggression (Vietnam) which was similarly predicated upon an endless succession of lies and propaganda about the nature of the "enemy". That you aren't even American makes such pandering all the more shameful and indefensible.

Those who pointed the finger too publicly against Hitler were subsequently villified (as have been O'Neill and Clarke in our present context) or otherwise "disposed of". Obviously you, like PB, believe that unless you see the full face of the monster immediately, it can't be so. Sadly, you underestimate the shrewdness of the game plan and those orchestrating it, as you so willingly swallow their hollow rhetoric. The very dupe Hitler & co., in their day, counted upon to champion their solidification of power.

So caught up in theoretical meanings you are now arguing against historic reality? Saddam DID in fact Nationalise Iraqi Oil Production and to the detriment of major US and UK oil producers which were invited to depart. This was the catalyst that mandated Gulf War I, the invasion of Kuwait (itself a contrived enclave annexed from Iraq by the west to serve our oil interests) was merely a contrived excuse sufficient for the purposes of convincing the UNSC.

But don't let historic geo-political reality stand in your way, if you'd rather see events through simplistic ideological goggles.

 

Clinton was not actually "brought down", but duly shamed by the very element which has hijacked the reigns of power since the end of the Clinton Era. What followed was a virtual blackout, only strengthened by 9/11, of legitimate criticism and accountability by this criminal administration (whose most prominent architects began their onerous careers in the Nixon administration).

I suggest you go do some research if this is all such a revelation to you. More than sufficient analyses of the veil of secrecy erected by Cheney and Rove has been written to educate you as to their cunning bid to reshape the operative principles of US and world politics.

You could start with Brzezinski's telling primer "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and its Geo-Strategic Imperatives". Id also recommend you learn a thing or two about the goals of the PNAC and the theorist from whence its views are derived, Leo Strauss.

 

Iraq nationalised oil production and then after waiting EIGHTEEN YEARS the US invaded Iraq - except that they turned around and left since i guess they must have "forgotten" to privatise the oil they had waited 18 years for, so they had to come back another 12 years later and invade it properly, but they accidentally wrote a privatisation program which specifically excluded oil.

That's the dumbest thing I've heard today.

Almost all the borders in the middle east were "contrived". What's your point? Who can complain about redrawing borders with military force?

Invading and annexing a country is a "contrived excuse" for UNSC action? What idiocy. There are no contrived borders in international law, there are simply borders and countries cannot decide to redraw them. Your claims of foreign policy credentials have never been so duly exposed as a joke, duly. Duly.

 

Oh dear ! wrong again, Hitler promised to give Germany back to the Germans, as the country was in such a mess, the German people embraced him like a saviour... they wanted what he promised, so they relinquish power to him. Only then did he use that power to its destructive effect, comparing the Germans of then ,with the Americans of today is ludicrous.. Americans are not repressed, they are not living in abject poverty ,, they will not be duped into hading that kind of power to the administration. And yet again you avoid the question of, once you have found a way of removing this administration, what are you going to do... I know!! you will spend the rest of your life blaming everyone else for the mess that you so openly advocated !!!!

 

Lets just have a look at how the world works today !!!



The US tells a country I want oil, and I want it at this price !!! That country is pressured to agree !! The US is happy, and the dictator which happens to run that country and keeps most of the nationalized oil money for himself is not happy but is still immensely rich !!!!! This may not be the most fair way of doing things.. But it suit the US .. Now if they paid the asking price of the country involved, that administration would be richer but not the country !!

Now if it was China or the former USSR, they would simply invade the said country claim all the resources as their own including the population ! and that would be that !!! Yes I know this is hugely simplified but when in Rome .......

 

If you check out my blog you will find links to virtually all sides of the fence, from Iraqi blogs to soldier's blogs to news media from all over the world. I am adamantly against the invasion of Iraq, and know for a fact that the headspace of many of the military over there is exactly like the barbarianism quoted above. The New York Times did not make it all up, and FOX news is little more than propaganda for the republican neocon right wing. They filter their news like a hippie filters tapwater from the city.

I would add though, that the military, while mostly populated by right wing folks and people who have been desensitized to violence, even see violence as an answer to conflict in general (look at spousal abuse stats within the military), there are many terrific and decent people in the military who oppose this war and tactics. I'd hate to gloss over them in any serious discourse.

We cannot afford to help the tsunami victime because we have blown our wad on policies that are killing children, not saving them. almost the entire world is aghast at us. What a tragic criminal shame.

Peace, V-

 

pointbreak, I could...and I do have many quotable facts I could type till my heart's content...but that wouldn't serve to persuade you to think from a different perspective, or to even challenge your always set-in-stone values, thoughts, and opinions. The way you think now is the way you'll think the day you leave this earth, whether that be tomorrow (god forbid) or 50 years from now.

 

after reading this entire post...I've come to a sudden understanding: there really is no point in this bickering because everyone here has already drawn their battlelines. Nobody in here will be swayed in another direction, so why bother with this never-ending back and forth?

If a revolutionary struggle is near (and many on both sides think it is) then the time is inevitably soon where we'll have no choice but to stop talking and plan our course of action (or run and hide). So enjoy the petty bickering now while it lasts.

No matter what the rightwing-thinking clones in here say or do, I'll be in the streets of D.C. on J20 telling the Bush junta where they can shove their re-stolen power.

www.counter-inaugural.org