Marijuana and Spirituality

Namaste Bhaskar,

The verse I quoted was from the Rig Veda.
Hinduism is a diverse system of thought and beliefs.

With all due respects, while you have your right to post your own viewpoint and that of your tradition, whatever it may be, please do not assume that your path nor your views alone is the official version.

Peace

 

It's funny because while psychedelic drugs offer the most liberating and profound mental states of induced consciousness, they may as well be the most desire ridden, delusional tools maya has to offer at the very same time.
That line has always been very blurred for me, but not so blurry that I refuse to partake in a psychedelic trip. I've quit smoking grass for numerous reasons, the main reason being state parole for the next 3 years, but the strong psychedelic plants and isolated chemicals are things I would never shun, and in fact I suggest people try them who fit the mould to, unmould, so to speak.
Would I have ever come to terms with accepting my soul, God, the nothingness of this existance, in this lifetime, without chemicals such as LSD? Maybe but it seems either doubtful, or at least that it would have taken me much much longer.
Namaste

 

I never made any such claim. You asked me how I would interpret the verse and I told you. If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.

I don't care for people who propogate wrong meanings - meanings that are not there, not linguistically accurate. Nowhere is soma referred to as a psychedelic and the plant itself from which the juice was extracted, to the best of my knowledge has no such properties.

What I said was that if drugs are your path to unfoldment, wonderful. Embrace it fully. But that in itself should be sufficient. Why this need to claim that it is recommended by this masters or that religions? Particularly when it requires misinterpretation and mistranslation to do so? Is you own experience not meaningful enough to stand on its own weight?

And if you still want to say that the vedas sanction drug use and make that your reason for using, still fine. Except those very same vedas also tell you to give up everything external, even your mind and body, and only then can you hope to reach the divine. So the same veda that you claim recommends drug use, also tell you to give it up if you want to go furter spiritually.

 

Bhaskar, using interpretation of Vedic scripture to call mushrooms a 'drug'
seems more absurd to me than merely interpretting Vedic scripture to be talking about mushrooms.
It seems entirely more plausible to me that Vedics heralded the spiritual quality of mushrooms, rather than try to brush them under the carpet like a 4,000 year old form of the DEA.

and I don't understand how it is possible to effectively give up all external unless you become an accomplished breathatarian

 

Here, Lord Shiva sits on a mat preparing bhang, a narcotic drug which arouses the senses and fills the mind with a feeling of tranquility. An intoxicating drink is made out of the leaves of the Indian hemp Cannebis Indica, and this decoction is then mixed with sweetened milk.


I worship Shiva, the Lord of Bhang (hash)



Namaste, Bhaskar,
Care for a puff?

 

Lord Shiva also drank poison. Wanna gulp?

 

Trouble is that Shiva is not a human being but a form of the supreme consciousness, so he'd hardly be reliant on cannabis. To imagine so would be sheer illusion.


Also, many of the sadhus who smoke ganga are on a very low level, and some also practice severe forms of austerity and self-mortification.

That said, I think myself that cannabis can be of use, but it will only be a 'spiritual' experience for those already turned towards a spiritual path. For the majority is is simply used to enhance worldly experience. It can only show you with a different focus what is already in your own mind.

 

Personally, I agree that soma = mushrooms/and or cannabis is a nonsense. There is as you say, nothing at all in the Veda to support such a view. Further, eating of mushrooms is looked down upon under Hinduism in general.

The only reference I know of to using drugs in mainstream Hindu literature comes in the 'Yoga Sutra's' if Patanjali, who mentions 'light-giving herbs' as one method.

Maybe there is more in the Tantra's - I don't know.

 

FYI Bill, the word used in the yoga sutras is aushadi - it merely means herbs. "Light-giving" is the translator's generous supplement. Of course, you can still read what you like into it.

From the commentary of Swami Krishnananda - one of the great living authorities on yoga and disciple of Swami Sivananda:

Also, there are cases where certain powers are acquired by the use of medicinal herbs which are spoken about in the yoga scriptures. We have, in India especially, some Himalayan herbs known as Sanjivini, etc., which are supposed to enliven even a corpse. Other herbs create certain vibrations in the system and stimulate the nerves, and allow the concentration of the mind. This is a very peculiar way of stimulating energy in one’s system, and is the most artificial of all methods, because these vibrations are artificial results that follow from artificial causes. They are outside oneself and, therefore, they have a beginning and an end. Therefore, they are useless. Anyhow, Patanjali tells us that these herbs are also one of the ways of stirring up certain energies in the system. The effects will be there as long as the causes are there. When the causes subside, the effects also subside.
Also, there are cases where certain powers are acquired by the use of medicinal herbs which are spoken about in the yoga scriptures. We have, in India especially, some Himalayan herbs known as Sanjivini, etc., which are supposed to enliven even a corpse. Other herbs create certain vibrations in the system and stimulate the nerves, and allow the concentration of the mind. This is a very peculiar way of stimulating energy in one’s system, and is the most artificial of all methods, because these vibrations are artificial results that follow from artificial causes. They are outside oneself and, therefore, they have a beginning and an end. Therefore, they are useless. Anyhow, Patanjali tells us that these herbs are also one of the ways of stirring up certain energies in the system. The effects will be there as long as the causes are there. When the causes subside, the effects also subside.

 

1. Perfections are born due to birth, drugs, mantra, austerity, or samadhi​

janma-osadhi-mantra-tapah-samadhi-jah siddayah​

Book IV - Kaivalya Pada (On Isolation) ​

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali​

Namaste Bhaskar,​

Care for a joint?​

For old times sake. :jester: ​

​

​

 

I think this has already been mentioned before, but pot has its good and bad points. Anyone who says something is "all-good" or "all-bad" is rather narrow-minded. On some level, pot has helped me recognize some of my unhealthy thought patterns and distorted views of myself and others. It also has created some unhealthy thought patterns, such as paranoia, self-doubt, and mood swings. I don't react the same way every time when I smoke pot b/c quality does have an impact on the effects as does state of mind.

My experiences have led me to realize that I have gotten as much good from pot as I can and I don't need it anymore b/c the damage done is greater than the benefits. Pot can be seen as a crutch, but what is wrong with using a crutch when you have a broken leg? The problem arises when the leg is healed but you refuse to put down the crutch.

There is no singular answer about the use of pot and spirituality, so my belief is that one should use what they can while it benefits them and then move on when it no longer does or is no longer needed.

Peace and love

 

Good post, hippiechick. I fully agree with your point of view.

On the other hand, we have here our "spiritual adviser" Bhaskar, who speaks more like a Drug Enforcement Agency representative giving class lectures on the evils of marijuana use.

I think, we already have more than enough of these guys around, Bhaskar.
Thanks. But no thanks.

 

1. Perfections are born due to birth, drugs, mantra, austerity, or samadhi​

janma-osadhi-mantra-tapah-samadhi-jah siddayah​

Book IV - Kaivalya Pada (On Isolation) ​

The Yoga Sutras of Patanjali​

Oshadha does not mean drugs, it means herbs, even vegetables. Anyway, that is a side issue. My path is of austerity and meditation. If you want to do drugs help yourself, but don't expect me to join you. I've been on that path and have no desire to return to it.

I'm not out to be an enforcement officer or anything of that sort. I'm not the least bit interested in what you do to your body. I never once said that you should quit drugs or anything of the sort. I only said don't misinterpret/mistranslate scriptures to justify it. Also let me add that the whole scripture debate began when someone is no many words asked me how I would explain a Rg Veda sukta.
Anyway, I have no great joy to be gained from beating my head against a wall. Enjoy your path and I know that being a sincere seeker, you will reach the goal. But mine takes different route.

 

Namaste Bhaskar,

So, Hindus never smoke bhang? (hash)


Like I said, the offer to smoke a joint or two still stands.
Peace

 

I never said that. I don't. Most Hindus don't. Those who do don't need to use the scriptures as an excuse.

 

OK - But cannabis is a herb, so really it's all a question of interpretation here. Probably those who are pro-dope will say one thing, those against another. It's not clear cut.
The context though might suggest that the 'perfections' are states of consciousness - higher consciousness. Other than by the actual ingestion of herbs or veg it's hard to see how they could be a source of the birth of perfections, even in the sense of bodily perfection from good diet, let alone a shift of the consciousness.
I would also assume, and this is critical, that to be a 'source of the birth of perfections', use of cannabis would have to be combined with following other aspects of the path, such as mental discipline, meditation, and so on.

But I agree with your point that if you're going to use cannabis you shouldn't need to look for justification in scriptures from whatever culture. It would be ridiculous to adopt a phoney mask of Hinduism merely to justify using it.

 

I don't deny the possibiity of interrpreting it that way. The thing is that when it is only interpreted in that way and all other possibilities are dropped out, it creates a very skewed picture. Like in the earlier sukta where the translation "Have I not drunk Soma" was preferred over the equally valid "Have I not become absorbed in God." Further, in some advanced vedantic texts, even the Patanjali practices are explained as only a preparation for the final realization, for which all external things, including body andmind,. have to be dropped.

 

I guess what it all comes down to is exactly what hippie chick has said, that if you can smoke some herb without being attached, then more power to you. Otherwise you are just lying to yourself.
My reason for thinking this is because while I do not smoke anymore and havent in quite some time, I do have a struggle with opiates (which, Im sure most of you know, is a whole entire different world lol) and while opiates in the past have made me feel a deep connection to life and love, the high and the energy the drug gives you is not from yourself as Bhaskar is saying, it is only there as long as the cause (morphine, codeine, or thebaine) takes to run it's course through the metabolism. As soon as it's gone, your body suffers a hell several times more powerful on the opposite end of the spectrum than the high, and is a trap of self delusion that is damn hard to break free from.
With marijuana, while there is no proof of any physical dependence effects developed out of occasional or even habitual use, nor any physical damage to the body and mind save for the the act of breathing in smoke itself (the chemical THC is entirely safe and in fact healthier than most of the food marketed for sale), still I have to say that the majority of people I know who smoke weed are mentally dependent on it. Without smoking weed, the people get irritated, uninspired, boring to converse with, and seem to spend quite a bit of their free (and occupied!) time dreaming about when their connection is going to come through, or when they can afford to buy a fat bag and be set so they dont have to worry about running out again for awhile.
Now, if weed were that amazing of a drug, one would think that this side of it, the uninspired, running out side, would not be a big deal at all because the 'spiritual' effects can vastly outweigh the negative side effects and aftermath of habitual smoking. But for the majority of people who smoke (And trust me, I know a LOT of people who smoke regularly :tongue: ), even when they do get high, they get uninspired, they sit around eating junk food, watching TV, playing video games, and gossiping about either personal 'friends' and family, or talking about nothing important at all just for a good laugh. That's fine and all, I have no problem with what people want to do. But when you see so many people doing this every single day of their life, you start to realize that weed is nothing all that special.
Now granted, there are still people who are not like this at all, obviously most of you supporting marijuana smoking in this thread are the opposite of the lazy stereotypical stoner I mentioned. I know a handful of people who get very inspired when they smoke, produce lovely music and visual art, paintings, sketched, etc and some who are even active and work out or meditate every time they smoke. And even fewer people but they do exist, never experience laziness, munchies, paranoia, confusion, and all the rest of it.
But it is the same with the stronger psychedelics, the weed or the mushrooms or the LSD are not bringing you to God, they are just lowering your ego a bit, just enough so that what you actually are, a divine child of God, can come through. Drugs dont show you anything they just temporarily attune you to a different state of receptivity and the rest is already inside your heart, mind and soul. I believe, that if a person is dedicated enough and has the honest devotion in their heart to meditate or pray and touch God without drugs, I mean really getting into that higher consciousness on their own by shutting out the external attachments and desires, then that person is obviously getting more out of their spiritual path than us drug smokers. I am not like how I used to abuse opiates, but I am also not entirely free of them and at this point in my life i do not have the inner strength to promise myself that I will never touch them again should the chance arrive, so I really have no place to say anything. But it is true, if a person is getting high everyday even on something as chill as marijuana, if that becomes the crutch than you are faking an injury, and of all the people in this world, the most annoying are liars and poor-me fabricators. If weed is just something you smoke for a lift or a spiritual connection without relying on it and could care less whether or not it even existed, then I dont see how that is harmful in the slightest bit save for lung damage, in which case, vaporizers are very simple tools to construct :tongue:

 

Namaste Bhaskar,
You need to roll some of that bhang and light up, once in a while.

It's okay. It's really not that bad...
Even the ancient Hindus bhanged quite a bit, so to speak.


Indian Hemp:
Its medical, religious, and recreational uses

Scientific name: (Cannabis sativa)
Family: Cannabinaceae
Sanskrit name: Vijaya
Hindi name: Bhang


"Banged up to the eyes."
British colonial description of celebrants using Indian hemp or cannabis



Honored by Indians as one of the “Precious Things” recovered at the birth of the universe from the primeval sea, Indian hemp or cannabis, as this narcotic plant is more popularly known, was taken by the king of the gods to gain immortality. In Sanskrit the plant is called Vijaya or Conquest, because it is supposed to have granted victory to those gods who used it.

In time, a cannabis potion known as bhang became the accepted pleasure drink of Siva, Lord of Wandering Ascetics. Indeed, an affectionate folk name for Siva in this mode is Bhangeri Baba or “bhang‑exhilarated Father.” During the medieval period, bhang entered the temple, taken by temple celebrants as a ritual drink to reach religious ecstasy. As a ceremonial sherbet it entered the pleasures of the court. Ground very fine, hemp was sifted through muslin that had been refolded up to six times. Then it was blended into thickened milk and seasoned with crushed almonds, lotus seeds, black peppers, aromatic herbs, and cane syrup.

Bhang was also widely used by the general populace during the spring celebrations of the Holi festival, which followed the winter harvest, when feuds and social classifications were joyfully dissolved in uninhibited gaiety.

At first a stimulant, exhilarant, and aphrodisiac, thereafter a sedative, the active principle of Indian hemp lies in the plant resin. Forty percent of this principle was used in the resinous hashish smoked by the wandering sects of India; 26 percent in the dried flower heads smoked in the villages of India as “ganja”; and only 10 percent in the ground green leaves used for the preparation of the bhang drink.

Ayurvedic medicine used hemp for the alleviation of migraine headaches and stomach spasms. Today it is still valued for its beneficent effect on migraines and neuralgia. A recognized analgesic, hemp is an antispasmodic and an anodyne or pain soother. It is also known to promote digestion and to assist in the flow of urine.


The plant's widespread medical, religious, and recreational uses in India were noted by a sixteenth­ century Dutch botanist, John van Lincschoten, in His Discours of Voyages into Ye Easte and Weste Indies (1598): “They have many kinds of Drogues, such as Amfira or Opium, Camfora, Bangue, and Sandall Wood.”

From The Garden of Life: An Introduction to the Healing Plants of India by Naveen Patnaik (New York: Doubleday, 1993) p. 34

 

sorry stev but bhaskar dossent want to use cannabis anymore his choice you know as is yours to smoke it, you wouldnt like it if he told you to quit as your telling him to smoke it