Man or Woman Forum

aristartle mentioned weather, inj winter i goout all the time in sleevless shirts, because iknow i'll be outside for 15 minutes sure i'll get chilly, but then i'll be inside in heat for hours and usualy in winter some places just crank up the heat & i'd rather be confy while i'm there.

as for jedi..slutty..your judment of theyre dress not theyres
in theyre eyes maybe its just cute, or this adorable lil mini, but it becomes sluttyin your eyes..
& why should u assume shes dressing that way to get some immagined intended targets attention? maybe it just makes her feel good to dress a certain way? odviosly the wayyou dress makes you feel a certain way right? moraly superior?

whats her clothes got to do withyou at all?
the problem is entirely inyour perception of women.. slutty enticing teases sent here just to torture you..

maybe just dropthe assumptions about her..about being slutyy & just have a conversation withher?

it really seems like your throwing around alotta blame here for your own lack of control

 

If she comes in fully clothed and i have problems keeping my eyes off of her, okay, thats my problem and those things happened to me in the past. However, if she comes in dressing provocative, then it is rude.

 

that is a very good point, thank you.

 

Fine, maybe slutty was a bad adjective, scratch that and replace it with "almost naked".

 

who defines what dressing provocotive means?

anything st all can fit that description. a burlap sack can be concidered dressing provacative because it provokes a reaction
wearring a formal gown can be provocative if thats what u go for

u just happen to like miniskirts..nithin wrong with that..just dont blame her for wearring what she wants to wear just cause u cant concentrate

if your fettish was tattoo's or peircings & a girl came in with alot youd be just as distracted.. would uyell at her for exposing her ear or neck just cause theres a peircing or tat that caught your attention?

 

Hey man i think you live in USA don't you? naked body is provocative isn't it? something that almost shows private parts is provocative yes? hopefully we are on the same page here now.

 

Another good point , thank you very much!.

 

thats totaly subjective because i'm quiet used to being around many many naked people & no in no way is it provocative in the least, its perfectly natural & confortable

but then theres nuditythats meant to be provocative.. & its all in the intention & attitude
odviosly if shes sitting in a library studying shes not trying tobe provocative only confortable

now if shes spreading her legs & touching herself under the table so u can watch..then id say shes probly being provocative

i'm guessing shes probly in her early 20's at most..& thats just the way her & her peers like to dress..

 

not really a good point at all since she was indoors right? you dont know what she wore oiutside or how long she was out there

 

I agree with Soaring Eagle here -- not actually a very good point at all.

My fiance is quite comfortable going out in shorts and a t-shirt in weather that causes me to wear my winter coat. We don't all have the same standards of what "cold" means.

And, as Soaring Eagle pointed out, she was inside. Even if it is 20 degrees out, if I only have to go from my car to a building (even if it's a 10 min walk from parking to the building), I will not bundle up nearly as much as I would if I had to be outside for an hour or more. For me, that's a difference of wearing just jeans or jeans with long-johns under them. For other people, that's a difference of wearing a skirt or jeans.

And, FYI, since I'm assuming you've never worn a skirt -- wearing leggings or pantyhose is really what makes the difference in warmth. I find myself just as cold in a skirt that goes to my ankles as I do in one that stops above my knees.

 

No. The vastly negative reactions you're getting here are far more related to the sick, twisted arguments that women are "asking" to be raped if they wear something vaguely "provocative" -- an adjective that is redefined in each trial to mean a short skirt or tight jeans or a tight (crew neck) t-shirt or a low-cut top or whatever.

It is only a tiny step from your blaming that girl for your inability to stop yourself from staring to blaming that girl for some rapist's "inability" to stop when she screamed NO.

First -- if that is your complaint, you should be railing about that cultural habit rather than the ways a few people act upon it. Like it or not, that's the way it is in universities across the country. Perhaps you could avoid that at some artsy, hippyish liberal arts college. But that is just the state of our culture at this time. You've got a much larger battle ahead of you if that is the basis for your complaint.

Second -- to assume that is rather ahistorical. How many women over the years have gone to college specifically to get their "MRS degree"? I actually met a girl this summer who proudly proclaimed that that is her goal (and here I thought that went out in the '60s). If you want to get into a Marxist argument, until relatively recently the college system served to maintain class distinctions as only those of a certain class had the resources to attend college or university. So you make sure your daughter goes to college so that she can meet a good college boy to marry, rather than take the chance of her falling for some blue-collar guy. (Even before colleges were co-ed, most women's colleges had ties with a corresponding men's college.)

Actually, many people do. Especially since you're just complaining about a miniskirt. They will also go meet their prof with their midriff showing, a low cut shirt, etc.

No. Now, if they came in reeking of Tag body spray, I would have to ask them to leave -- perfumes/colognes give me migraines. But as long as they don't stink and they are actively participating in the discussion, I don't particularly care what they wear.

Have you thought about seeing a counsellor about this?

 

exactlythat deffence pisses me off completely, cause it really has nothing to do with anything the woman does at all, only that the rapist (or in this case the starer) felt provoked
they can use that in any situation (well except when u concider guys who rape coma victims or take a peekin someones window
but the argument can be made that she was being provocative by just going somewhere were there will be men

agreed again
alsoi'd add, maybe if utook a momment to talkto her u might find her bf just broke up withher & she was feeling unatractive & dressing alittle sexy was just the confidence boost she needed
you as a man might dothe same thing in a different way, dress nicer, work out..lose a few pounds get a new haircut..whatever.. the way we dress reflects & changes the way we feel about ourselves
and are personalto us
& franklyif i was her & u tried tellin me how to dress id tell ya to mind your business & fuck off

yup again..& thats perfectly normal, hell my ex was a parole officer..specificaly she worked withsex offenders & alot of even high profile cases like those teens in nj a buncha years ago who threw out theyre baby in the trash..well anyways, shed work barefoot every day, has never worn a bra in her life & usualy wears no panties towork..would u say she does that to provoke men? especialy since she works with severe low lifes & is a besautiful spiritual person herself?

it doesnt matter what a person wears..if u treat them like a person

thank you..i was hoping i wouldnt have to be the 1 to suggest that..but i sure was thinking that

 

What? now you are comparing me to a rapist? this discussion is over. You said nothing about why an academic setting is different from a professional one except for the fact that you make it clear that college is about beer, sex and choosing "targets" for mates, and then you dare to compare me to a rapist and say i am going to be one, you make assumptions over assumptions and don't even know who i am, this discussion is over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

 

I never said that you are a rapist. I compared your line of reasoning to the line of reasoning that was used for a long time to put the blame for rape upon the victim. Many people who were/are not rapists have used that line of reasoning, including many women. The reasoning remains problematic, regardless of who uses it.

As for why an academic setting is different from a professional one -- that is the culture we live in. Some blame it on the extended adolescence our culture supports, so that the 18-22 year old set are far more child like than members of that age set 40 years ago were. Others would blame it on the fact that students are paying for their education, rather than competing to get paid for going every day. As a grad TA, I have a different level of what is the minimum acceptable level of dress to wear to class, precisely because I am the one being paid to be there and the one who must take a position of authority. I have clothes that I specifically save to wear on days when I will not be interacting with my students.

But, whatever, analyzing why undergraduate college students have a different set of expectations placed upon them than do graduate students than do professionals is not my area of study. That is just the way our culture is. If you want to work to change that, by all means, have at. But start with something a bit more substantial than what the women are wearing -- after all, that should fall in place without specific regulation once you fix all of the other factors that make up the difference.

 

No one was calling you a rapist Jedi, but... I think what a lot of us find disconcerting is that hte line of logic you used is not entirely dissimilar to that used by some rapists/rape cases. Not saying you would -ever- step over that line, you obviously know what consent is, but... can you see how if someone took what you said about twenty steps past where you are, that it could be applied to a rapists form of "logic" for attacking someone? I think that was the point intended, not to say that you would ever be capable of rape, but that the logic you used taken to an extreme point is used to defend some very violent acts.

 

exactly as they said, nobody said anything about you being a rapist, just that you blamming the womans clothes for your inability to just look away is very much paralel to someone saying ..she was teasing me flaunting her body ?& i just couldnt control myself & so i attacked her..its all her fault for dressing that way


and when we suggested therapy it wadsnt because anyone thought youd be a danger to women, only that you seem to have issues that you could work out with help

but i truly think a week or 2 at a nudist colony or something would be the best therapy for u

 

You have the right to control yourself.

Simply, because women respond to what society values of them just like men.

 

oh my god this is ridiculous... the isssue of being raped... okay... jedi, was simply saying that he felt compassion for young women who dress provocatively, because he is heterosexual, he can realise that a women in a mini skirt is attractive, it is nature... he was saying that this woman is putting herself at risk of men who are not of good intentions... and i think its pretty obvious that jedi is of good intentions here, he simply wishes that young girls would be more aware of what risks they are placing themselves in. we all have different cultures, and it so happens that the west is more liberal..

this girl... is putting herslef at risk, and jedi, bravely, and responsibly, acknowledges that a woman dressed like that might arouse him.. and he is bothered by it becuase he worries what a less well intentioned man might think or do to her.

i am... straight... as a post, but seeing a gril sexually dressed makes me think about sex... okay?!.... its just natrual.. and its what the girl is signalling. it speaks.. 'sex'

it pisses me off, becuase i get worried about the risk she is putting herself at.. the men who might be creeps...

its not wrong to wish that women would have a bit more deceny and self respect... that way they might be seen for who they are rather than stereotyped... and it is too easy to stereotype a woman in a mini skirt as highly sexual and 'easy'

i feel sorry for men as well... who have this constant sexual signals being flashed to them...!!! i mean how are they supposed to not be aroused, and be respectful when a woman is dressed bare...

it is degarding to both parties and a slight annoyance in my life


but we all have to live with it becuase this is a free country.. it is just simply something that makes me go 'ugh' 'please' put some clothes on!!!!

 

Case in point of a woman (so not likely to be accused of being a rapist) suggesting that it is the woman's fault if she is raped -- after all, she should have known better than to put herself at risk like that, right?

Before I get started on this, I haven't read up on the issue in years ('98, I think), but when I did, I found all kinds of interesting articles interviewing rapists and whatnot.

First of all, look at the stats -- stranger rape is the least common (but most news-worthy and easiest to prosecute) form of rape. Date rape is far higher on the list. So, say she is meeting a guy to study, and this guy is someone that she knows a bit as a friend, is flirty with, might like to date (r even having their first date as a study date). In terms of protecting herself, meeting him at the library while wearing a miniskirt, then staying to study for a while after he's left is safer than meeting the guy in her dorm room while wearing something less revealing. Getting dressed up and going to the library to pick up guys is FAR safer than getting dressed up and going to a frat party to meet guys.

Second, in those cases of stranger rape, the men all explained their actions in pretty much the same terms Jedi used (again, not calling him a rapist, but pointing out the flaws of his complaint) -- couldn't help but stare, though they took it farther, calling her a bitch for making him want her but rejecting him, etc. HOWEVER, "that bitch" that made him want her often is not the person he raped -- it's just that too many "bitches" eventually made him hate all women.

Looking at the high profile stranger rape cases I've heard anything about in the past few years: a jogger wearing sweat pants and a sweat shirt (yeah, so provocative), women sleeping in their own homes (not out provoking anyone), woman in a maid service uniform (required professional attire), etc.

Certainly, if this girl will be walking home to her dorm late at night when there are not many people out, she should have someone trustworthy accompany her. That has nothing to do with what she's wearing, that has everything to do with being in a vulnerable position, whether she's wearing a miniskirt or sweatpants.

 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! if i show this to my husband he'd probably burn jedi in effigy. he and all his friends. fucking funny.


but anyway, jedi, i know what you're saying. there was this lady who came into the store where i was working. she wanted to buy some shoes, she asked my coworker for some assistance. she had mountainous breasts, and they were just barely covered. when his eyes inevitably strayed toward them, SHE CHEWED HIS ASS FOR IT. i wanted to slap her. that's just fucking ridiculous. he was the biggest teddy bear in the whole world, it really hurt him. it's not like he could help it, for god's sake. I STARED TOO! for god's sake, they were terrifying.