man asking question about objectification of women

Persuing her for sex isn't treating her as a sex object though. It's treating her as a sex human (if you respect her as a human being, that is).

Of course, but more so as tools instead of sex objects (although the latter does happen).

 

I like this.

 

This only tells half of the story since women leave the initiation up to men. The only thing they are really mad about is not being hot enough to be objectified by someone who's taller, more muscular, richer, or who's got a stronger jaw than the Mexican construction hands.

If you want something done well, do it yourself. Until women share the burden of initiation, they don't get to choose who hits on them or how. Particularly, if they dress to bring attention to their naughty bits in public.

If anything, I feel much worse for the construction workers. They are doomed to a life of sucking up to women they'll never fuck.

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Edit: Also, put Ryan Gosling or any other sex symbol within ear shot or arm's length of a crowd of women and they'll do exactly the same construction workers do to the neighborhood princess. Actually, probably much worse since men are deemed unharrassable by the courts, and yet are routinely convicted of the same without due process.

And before the cries of "woman-hater!" come, let me say that I am much more disappointed in men who play the white knight than I could ever be in women. White knights are invariably ugly and limp, and unable to get laid unless they put women on pedestals. You wanna know who the real feminists are, they are men.

 

Came across this video and thought of this thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkUhW41Qpjg

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaxKR4CAKf8

 

I think two people can be very polite and interested and respectful and have only sex as their objective. It really depends on the individual. Maybe some women would be offended and that is ok. There are others, however, that are fine with meeting people who can be fuck friends.

 

Not only is it possible, but it comes naturally to some guys who are not jerks.

It depends partly on the age and maturity of the woman.

I seem to hear the loudest complaints from women that guys never look at that way. Also, there is sometimes peer pressure to react with disdain in front of other women. I like it when guys flirt with me, but those are seldom the guys who appear to have serious relationship potential. That's fine, because I'm not looking for another serious relationship. If I was, it might be a little frustrating at times, but not insulting.

Truth. :cheers2:

Not always. Sometimes it only seems that way to the men. I've known several girls who would sometimes make the first move, either with words or actions. But not if they were seeking a serious relationship.

 

I'm never sure she hasn't laid the trap and is objectifying the man.

 

Yes, we can!

 

Being polite and respectful doesn't get you laid. Being friendly does. Here is an example. Suppose you haven't seen someone in a long time and you finally meet that's person.
Respectful and polite interaction:

"hello Mr.Jones, long time no see. How have you been? I'm guessing you were busy with work."

Friendly interaction:
"where have you been you bastard.I haven't seen you in forever. I was sure you had been kidnapped by the mafia!

It's just like when you are around friends and you can crack crude jokes and tease them in ways that may be insulting. But you won't feel insulted or disrespected because there is good amount of trust between friends.

With that being said, there is a disrespectful way to pick up women and a respectful way to do it.

The objectification/disrespectful way would be to think "ok there is the girl, I want to sleep with her" and you try to pick her up by saying and doing things that will give you a better chance of having sex with her.

The respectful way of picking up a girl is to not think about picking up a girl. Instead, if you see a group of girls, try to entertain them, make them laugh, and have fun. And do that with every group at the bar or club. Be the person that brings a ton of positive and fun energy to everyone you meet and you will find that women then will want to meet you and sleep with you.

So i do think it is disrespectful to approach a woman at a bar just for sex.

 

The issue here goes WAY beyond just picking up women. It's about a mentality many women have towards men objectifying them sexually. Some girls will look at a female model in a TV commercial and get upset because they feel she (and thus all women in society) are being unfairly "objectified" as sex objects. That's what this is about.

 

I watched a girl rudely push a man away on the dance floor the other night because he leaned in to kiss her. It was followed up with a power struggle, attitude, snarly looks, etc. She was very hot, dressed well, and getting a lot of attention. I suppose she was thinking that she can objectify herself without consequences. Women don't want their fun night out and freedom to be gorgeous result in multiple men getting the wrong idea. However, it's inevitable she will be noticed. She knows it. To then be angry when a few men take action, such as try and kiss her, is silly.

 

This is a double edged sword, and a card that women love to play a lot. The mentality that I can walk around with my tits and ass hanging out, and no one has the right to look at me if I don't want them too .

But that's going a little beyond the topic of objectification. A girl can dress very conservatively and still make the claim that she's being unfairly objectified by men for any plethora of reasons. A girl can say, "I don't like the way my bf fucked me last night. He treated me like I was his sex toy." Maybe her claim is true... maybe not. What I have a problem with is this mentality women have, that being the object of a man's desires is a "bad" thing.

 

It's perfectly normal for men and women to desire each other. The way to approach the other person will be different, depending on culture, upbringing, where you are.

When I see men, one of the first things in my mind is curiosity about him in bed, about his cock, about his stamina. It's natural. I known when men look at me they're thinking the same. It's normal. What I don't like is rude people, coarse, without elegance. If I'm just out, on a working day, solving problems, etc, I prefer men to be discreet and keep their thoughts to themselves. I'll do the same. If I'm looking for sex and flirt, like in a lifestyle club, he can be open about it.

Bars... I never go to bars. I don't drink alcohol. If I'd go, I'd appreciate the guy's honesty, as long as he wasn't rude. What men have to understand is that even when a woman is out hunting for sex, it perhaps isn't with him. I choose who I fuck, who I kiss. I go out hunting, but I prefer to fuck no one than to fuck a man who's not attractive to me. The same works the other way around. A man maybe out hunting, look at me and exchange a smile, but perhaps he's looking for something I can't provide. Who knows he kicks on big boobs? Mine are small. I'm not his type, whatever. Perhaps I'm not beautiful enough... He has the right to be picky. It isn't personal. Even if he picks me to dance, it still doesn't mean he'd like to fuck me. I'd ask first, before assuming one who's hunting is hunting for someone like me.

I always ask a man first, before touching him. His body, his space. I like men who do the same.

 

I have spoken with many women who told me that they felt extremely objectified when men looked at their body even if they were dressed in a provocative manner. So here are a couple of videos that i believe will express my opinions on the matter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrKxN3aGVM"]Women Are Pervs, Too - YouTube


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OBPaenkxdg"]Dave Chapelle on how women dress. - YouTube

 

All men look at me as sex object (I dont mind) its just the way their brains work.

 

I know this is a really old post but I would like to make a distinction here.

Looking, even leering at women is one thing, trying to touch her, in anyway, without consent is altogether different. Looking at someone, objectifying them, going home and masturbating while thinking of that person...none of that is illegal. The scene quoted above is not ok! No matter how someone is dressed, they still get to choose who has access to their body, this goes for men and women alike.

 

Actually, nope, not all of them do.

 

MG, a well-put post. However, your opening sentence itself highlights the root of the problem. The concept of conveying "consent". You ladies, frankly, are masters of sending double signals, or at least confusing ones. I've had two older lady-friends I've posed that to. They both freely admitted that you folks do that. They offered two reasons for this.

One, is that most women are basically insecure. Now, it's true that most men are also, but it's more evident in women because females are quite prone to criticize others in their group. Because of this core insecurity, offering an opinion, or in this case sending a signal to a male, is accompanied with self doubt. To cover this, dual signals to give a way out often get sent.

Second, methods of conveying the degree of consent is often not well understood. In this case, it's the secretive nature of most females which keeps them from, in a sense, knowing how to lay their cards out on the table. To say simply that they'll flirt outrageously with you, but that's as far as it's going to go, would give the male clear boundaries, which most would respect because it takes his own insecurities off his mind. A win-win.

In the case mentioned earlier, a simple turn away of her face would have signaled "no" or "not yet". Instead of a clear conveying of her feelings it led to an over-reaction. Often a very small gesture such as touching a lady's hand is enough to clarify the situation for both, leaving each options.

My two cents worth.

 

It's actually not the problem. What your talking about is implied consent and thats where men have to change how they think, consent is not given just because a woman smiles at you or speaks kindly to you, consent is not a hair flip and a giggle. A clear, non hesitant "Yes" is the only signal that actually means yes for each and every step of the process, from introductions to sex and even each new sex act. Anything short of that is a "No" until otherwise specified.
Statistics show that 1 in 6 US women will be raped annually in the US.
Everything you wrote sounds more like passing the blame for mens behavior. Sometimes what you perceive as "mixed signals" are women trying to protect themselves when confronted with unwelcome attention from a man...being nice to him in hopes that he doesn't hurt you while simultaneously trying to get away. The thing is that even when women are very clear about not wanting attention, some men just don't care. The other day my youngest was walking through a parking lot on their way to a friends car to get a ride home from work, they were in uniform, a polo shirt and jeans, in no way looking or acting sexy, a bunch of guys in a car drove up next to them. When they said "not interested," the guys got angry and began to drive erratically while calling them a bitch. This should not be a consequence of turning down an advance.

Let me point out also that "In the case mentioned earlier," that nowhere does it say that this woman was flirting or even in anyway intentionally interacting with this man. The only thing truly known about it was that she was being touched against her will.

The real "win-win" would be for men to know that the boundary already exists without it being stated and that the thing they need to get before crossing it is explicit consent.

 

No man this side of a prison door believes in 'implied consent'. Women can wear the skimpiest of bikini's, and are for all intents and purposes are stark naked, and men can do no more than get a hard on in response, but you can't touch her. SHE has to initiate. Even once she's initiated contact, she can still say stop, and if the man continues, he's risking that other side of the door. That's just how it works MG is right, looking and even leering is short of touching, so that's still OK. Women are currently making the case that that too should put men on the other side of the door, but so far, we're still allowed to get an erection