Make CBN Pay to STOP spreading hate!

I've never seen the actual studies on how churchy America is. It would be interesting, especially how do you measure it? Who does the study and asks the questions? What do they ask about: Attendance, membership or people who say they are a christian? And what happens to those ppl who used to be christians, do they become: Jews, Buddhists, or wicca? What do you want to measure: Christianity in America or Religion in America or Spirituality in America?

The most interesting point here was made by hippypauy "You should look into the cycles of religious awakenings in the US we are in one now but that generation (WPA-WWII) was a long way away from it."

Fundies like to point to the "Greatest Generation" as an example of fealty. They want to honer them because they fought for freedom. What we forget, and what hippypaul points out, is that they understood true freedom. That is something worth fighting for. They are remarkable for that.

 

Much Respect to the WW2 generation (popularised as 'the greatest generation by a flaming liberal democrat btw

My Grandfather is one of them and its remarkable to have him 'relive' those days whenever we were in the places where he signed up, trained and to hear him explain how they saw it as their duty to serve.
He served as a Chaplain.
To this day he lives with a sort of 'regret' and almost a strange sense of guilt that he was never sent to the front lines.
They actually felt 'ashamed' for not getting put up front instead of others.
An amazing generation who did nothing less than save the planet from evil.

What we do to honour that is our question.

 

Right on. It's not right to marginalize or pigeon hole a generation like that.

But every body has got TO CHECK IT OUT what a cool idea!

 

I have to agree with Mychal about measuring Christianity or "churchiness."

Mainline Protestant churches have certainly seen their memberships decline, but the Catholics have held pretty steady and the evangelical Protestant churches are larger and more numerous than ever. There are also more independent congregations out there.

That's just a matter of membership. There are probably more people attending churches these days who have not formally become members.

It's not just a church thing. Membership in all sorts of groups, from civic organizations to bowling leagues, has gone down. People don't seem to be "joiners" the way they used to be.

I haven't seen any statistics, but I'd guess that there are a growing number of Americans who believe that you don't have to be a church member to be a committed or practicing or "good" Christian.

My sense is that however many Christians there may or may not be, Christians are certainly more of a vocal presence in this country than ever. There is more Christian radio and television than ever, and political candidates speak more than ever about their religious beliefs and experiences.

 

Let me go through this again slowly



You stated

“I think its clear that Church Membership and those identifying themselves as practicing Christians has declined substantially since the 40s.”



And



“It would seem that the majority of men and women that died and served to defeat Hitler and rescue his victims would (by todays standards) be consider right-wing Christians. (back in the 40's most Americans would be considered 'extreme right wing Christians' by todays standards I mean)”



One statement says that those identifying themselves as practicing Christians have declined since the 40’s. The other statement saying that the generation of the 40’s or the WWII generation would be considered right wing Christians.





In point of fact



There was a decline in those identifying themselves as practicing Christians from the 30’s until the late 70’s. It has since risen to a point that a recent survey reported that 98% of Americans stated that they believe in God. We are in the mist of a “great awakening" at this point in time. With the rise of a wide spread right wing “Family Value" based movement. The funny thing is that these family values that are harked back to are often a historical myth. You might also want to take a look at



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McChurch



Therefore, to restate it once more religious belief fell then it went back up again. Now it is high. You will I hope note that that is not in agreement with either of the two conflicting statements that you made.

 

I did not make conflicting statements.
They are in agreement with each other.
You are blind and retarded to keep pretending otherwise but thanks for the senseless effort.
Please stop punching yourself.

- however I should mention that I generalised a view that would be taken today.
Example: It would be a 'given' back then that soldiers would need either a Roman Catholic or a Protestant Chaplain.
It was a given that a Christian Cross was a burial stone.

What Im saying there is that by todays standards - that would be considered downright 'Right wing Bigotry' (or some stupid term) and exclusive and probably charges of a 'Theocracy' would go on.
That was a 'Given' back then.
Just as my Great Grandfathers built a memorial to the 4 guys in town who died defeating Hitler.
The Memorial (like all over the west) is obviously a Christian Memorial.
The Gov sponsored that and - at that time - that was a given and nobody would have thought otherwise.

I dont think I need to point out how things declined (from Christianity) since you already did it for me.

 

There was a Jew or four in WWII BTW

In addition, you are still missing the point that religious belief at this point in time 1/19/2006 in the US is higher than it was in WWII. Also, FYI my dad's dog tags like many others said NONE



Information from Wikiquote



Franklin Delano Roosevelt (January 30, 1882 – April 12, 1945), 32nd President of the United States (1933-1945)



Has one quote that references religion and that is in a formal sense

• Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger. With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us God.

George Walker Bush (born July 6, 1946) is the 43rd and current President of the United States.



Has 14 quotes that reference religion – they include



"And we base it, our history, and our decision making, our future, on solid values. The first value is, we're all God's children



"Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife."



"Freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman."

• Well, the jury is still out on evolution, you know. George W. Bush answering a question regarding the case about how the evolution of man should be thought in schools. September 2005

In the televised Republican presidential debate held in Des Moines, Iowa on December 13, 1999, all of the participating candidates were asked: “What political philosopher or thinker do you most identify with and why?” Unlike other candidates that cited former presidents, Bush responded "Christ, because he changed my heart." His decision to name a religious figure generated some criticism - even among Christian conservatives such as Alan Keyes.

 

What you should do is also find similarities between leaders of Atheist / Agnostic leaders from the 40s and then again from now in 2006.
That will make even more sense.
(really?)

Can you even IMAGINE a US Politician back in the 40s even suggesting that homosexuals were 'just like everyone else' and then actually saying he believed that the definition of Marriage should include 'gay marriages?

Can you even IMAGINE something like that even from the most 'liberal' of Democrat.

Now imagine what you think of a politician in 2006 who believes homosexuality is abnormal and they out never be allowed marriage rights?
What would you call them?
A 'Right Wing Conservative'.
and yet that would have been by far an wide the 'given' opinion in the 40s.

But anyways.. I swear you are totally fucking this up - even worse - each time you keep trying at it.
Just relax.
Stop trying to make this idea of yours fit somehow.
Its not working and nobody even cares to persue it.
Just let it go.

 

Let’s see you are saying that FDR, who lived in an open marriage with a bisexual wife, was a 'Right Wing Conservative'. Why of course he was, how stupid of me not to have seen it at once.

 

There were Opium Addicts back in the 40s too.
So the problem is no worse than what we see in 2006.
Right?
Idiotic.


Edit: Meant to say 'Idiotic' even though you may very well be an Idiot as well.
However 'Idiotic' is my point.
Thx

 

Um ... what is the topic of this thread anyway?

 

Its about accusing CBN of being 'Hateful' because they do not want to extend Marriage Rights to Same-Sex Couples.

This of course does NOT apply the other way around because its never 'Hateful' to say or do anything towards CBN.
(Since their wrong .. right?)

So ultimately, its about starting a spiteful war with CBN.
Something which will almost certainly just fuel everyone into a downward spiral of contempt and or determination.

But hey.. choose your battles.

 

Well my friend as it happens we are at a low point in both drug and alcohol use in the US at the present. You have got to read more history before you make these comparisons. This is the third time during the discussion that you have referred to me as an idiot. If you dislike me, you should set your computer to ignore my comments. Then you will never have to look at them. If you are going to have a discussion with me. Then why do you keep descending into personal insult. That is usually the sign of someone who is not coming up with good arguments to support their point.

 

No its ok.
You already made a very good case for a decline in (what are now called) 'Right Wing Christian' Values since the 40s.

Its fascinating really.. some old skool Pastor were telling me how 'back in the day' that it was all Denominations that spoke out against birth control.
It was not a 'Pope' thing at all.
Thats was totally acceptable and a 'universal' opinion in Christendom to be 'against birth control'.

Nowadays you wouldnt think twice about refering to that as some 'Fundie' stance.
Yet a few decades ago that was 'everybody'.

It wasnt that long ago in Canada where everyone agreed with the Death Penalty.
Im not making an argument for or against it right now.
Just pointing out how that was a 'given' and now (in this country) it would be considered a 'FAR' Right winger 'Redneck' position to take.

 

On those two issues, I would say you are 100% correct. The public climate on abortion and the death penalty has shifted and someone who opposes one and supports the other is now seen as right wing.