Lsd, Shrooms, or Salvia?

What he meant by compressed into an hour or whatever was exactly that - that DMT is way more intense.

This guy is a bit crazy, but is a suberb chemist. He'll be finishing his chemistry degree a year or so early beacuse he just gobbles that stuff up...actually, it's pretty much why he wants to do this. He says nothing they've given him has been that much of a challenge and he thinks LSD is the way to go. After looking into it and realizing that three of the precursors are going to be extremely difficult (if not impossible for kids our age to procure) and that the glassware is going to cost several K, he (with the help of us) started looking at some other drugs. I told him to look into all the different RC's and see what we might be able to do. This guy's pretty much on his own though, we're more just telling him what not to try.

 

that's all fun and good, and he may be a skilled chemist, but even skilled chemists are wary of using strong reduction/oxidation reagents. Just look at Shulgin's accounts of using LiAH; even he mentions the urgency of using great care with certain reagents. It's not an issue of precursors, when it comes down to the procedure, it's the reagents involved, and their sensitivity to certain conditions.

I mentioned in another thread how (in theory) mescaline would be easy to synth (it is); the tricky part is working with an alcohol precursor (trimethyl-benzyl-alcohol), in conjunction with Lithium Aluminum Hydride, one of the most dangerous chemicals in the lab.
the main part of the synth is reducing the alcohol, a potentially explosive scenario.

I reiterate: my suggestion to him is to do extractions on various entheogenic plants; much less hassle, legally, and in practice...arouses less suspicion.

 

I suggested that he try the plant extractions, he balked at that idea and said something of "cheating" and it being too easy.

This guy is careful - he's made precursors to cancer medications that cost more than the most expensive heroin and have complex and dangerous synths. I'm confident he knows what he's doing, we just need to advise him on certain things.

And I think the prospect of being blown up is one of the things that motivates him about chemistry. He recognizes that risk and does whatever he can to make sure he's fine. He bugged us about making nitrous oxide for a couple weeks until we made it clear that we didn't want to have any. During that time, we asked how it was done and shit (I have a natural curiosity about everything) and he told me about the various steps and how one can blow one's self up during part of it. His eyes brightened up during that part.

I trust his abilities, all we need is a place and materials.

 

then he should consider dmt, because lsd is more than likely beyond his stature; even ergotamine is watched like fort knox.

 

dmt synthesis is a lot more involved than simple decomposition of ammonium nitrate; it releases hydrogen cyanide gas. also, formalin will be required.

and extractions aren't an easy way out, it's an easy way to avoid unnecessary attention; but if he can get access to tryptamine and sodium cyanoborohydride without arousing suspicion, more power to him.
think "echelon" .
also, plant extraction is akin to alchemy, an ancient art.
experience has taught me, when one procedure/technique is more feasible (financially, timewise, accessably and inconspicuously) than another, I'd go with the former...getting the same product regardless, no sense in thumbing my nose at a simpler method.


(words to the wise, from a veteran chemist)

 

Went back through the thread a bit...someone provided a link to the shroomery site where a guy was talking about thumbprints. He said that people who do them usually need up to a week of "babysitting" afterwards and that you really never come all the way back. And it is almost instantaneous, right from when it touches your tongue. First hour or so is difficult, then you die. Almost literally. He said it was complete and total dissolusion of the self, with no option otherwise. Fighting it simply prolongs the inevitable. Someone asked what the visuals were like and what he remembers of the experience, but he couldn't answer that, all he could say was "there was no me to remember." All he said about that stage is that it was Eternity.

They (him and another guy that have done multiple thumbprints) started talkin about saturation levels...their hypothesis is that the method of delivery is what makes a difference. On regular high dose trips, you can't acheive full effects because of the blotter and whatnot. The one guy, goes by chinacat77 on shroomery, said that he doesn't like dosing acid anymore because it takes so much to get him off that it takes so long to go out and come back, and that he much prefers to take shrooms in combination with DMT because it's quicker and more to the point and less intense than a full blown acid experience.

Different but equal is what I got from one of his responses on page 22, I believe. Someone in that thread asked about synthetic psilocybin. Any info?

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1427364/page//fpart/1/vc/1

 

hahahahaha...riiight.
there's no f'ing way a "full blown acid experience" is more intense than a DMT flash. that's just too funny LOL

anyway, the synth for psilocybin starts with 4-benzyloxyindole, and requires argon gas, dimethylamine, oxalyl chloride, dioxane, and LiAH (along with some other reagents ..it's a fairly involved 5 step (for the intermediates) procedure

 

can you explain the dmt flash???

I mean,,, is it like time stops and the only thing theres is the neverending deepening of the fractals, seen in all dimensions or directions possible, that would be the parralel or time if you want...and there are entities and all emerging from this deepening, or multiplication , or whatever??? Impossible to move a finger from this flash even if you were fighting,and like your body is a distant waste?...

Cuz flash describes well a possible effect at a certain level of lsd trip...

 

the LSD trip becomes a "peak"; DMT has the "flash".

it's the breakthrough into "hyperspace". you are suspended in 4th dimensional reality, where time is no longer the factor, alien entities appear with eyes open, but it's even more vivid with eyes closed; scenery is completely different than the actual place you're in. The carrier wave (buzzing sound common to psychedelics) is much louder, and your body feels the vibrations too; forces can be felt on the body. it's harder to control the trip, you MUST be a passive observer, or else you'll more than likely be scared out of your mind if you try to impose your will.

I've read a lot about "ego death" on lsd trips on this forum, but the dmt "death" is a pure NDE; and I hate to break it to the acid jockeys, but a slip into a DMT flash is certainly more rapid and intense than a thumbprint, it's just shorter (which is bewildering to the person who took it...tolerance develops quickly, and dissipates just as quickly)

 

You don't think eating 50 milligrams of crystal lsd is a "pure" nde?

 

What i meant by flash is that I was walking, very freaked out and for he first time since like 20 minutes , i could see stuff better, but it was peace before the a bomb....then i saw my gf fall down, and it did it to me too, like a truck coming, a thousand airplanes crashing on you...it just destroys you completely in no time, its like ripping paper, I could see at the same time the eternity of fractals, and like if i was facing my body which was, lookin like it was dead, drollin...Its like opening another dimension....

And it must be more intense if it happens and you are well there, like it did to me, cuz I was fighting and never transited in ego loss, thinkin this sucking me in was actual death. With dmt you start sober get to where you say in a few secs it is certain that its more intense..

 

no, I think it's a waste.

much less than that is needed to have a monstrous trip.

NDEs are often talked about with dissociatives (Ketamine, PCP, DXM), hallucinogens like DMT and DPT, and even salvia, because you experience the void. I suppose I could sense the void in a high LSD dosage...

I think it becomes a matter of semantics, especially when one meditates while under the influence. OBEs are certainly attainable with acid, shrooms, and all the ones I mentioned.

 

what you described in the first part is a peak. a flash hits you all of a sudden, about 20 seconds to half a minute after exhaling DMT smoke; it slams you: you become a deer in the headlights.

there's no two or three hour build up, no way to prepare for it. it comes on as quickly as a sneeze, just like salvia, but much more intense in every sense.

 

LSD is most definatley the best drug for me.

 

The guy from shroomery said that that's as close as he could come to describing it was calling it a near death experience. To be more exact, he refered to it later as a post death experience, that you're taken to the Void that is death and there you experience the Eternity. Complete and total dissolusion of anything you've ever experienced.

I'm not saying that DMT isn't as intense, that's certainly not where the argument is. They're different and both are extremely intense. BUT...if you can remember a DMT experience, obviously part of "you" is still there to remember the experience. With chinacat's pde, there's nothing to remember because there was no "you."

Tell this guy it's a waste and he will certainly call bullshit on you. He knows 100's if not 1000's of people who have done thumbprints, and all will tell you that they have a better life because of it. Not that they developed the ability to just be happier, but that the experience awakened a perspective in them that allows them to have a better outlook about things. Even hardcore religious types are afraid of what comes when you die, but this guy (and the others who have done it) know what is coming and can lead their lives without fear of the end, because they know what happens.

And I think you missed the point of me saying that this guy doesn't like to trip acid anymore. He uses these other drugs (when he does trip, he has a family now) because it takes him out just about as far and brings him back faster without the lingering effects that acid does. I suggest you take the time to read that thread, even if it is jut chinacat's posts and read with an open mind.

 

I did read it.

50 milligrams is a waste, because you can take a tenth of that, in crystal, and get the same effect.

I've read and heard several experiences, several books (many of Tim Leary's works), I know LSD changes people's lives; you don't need to try to convince me that a thumbprint ritual is the end all/be all of psychedelics, because it isn't . I'd imagine ibogaine rivals a thumbprint.
I personally knew of one person who did a thumbprint. He was shocked to the soul, for an entire day (weary the next) , not a week. LSD lasts 8 - 12 hours, not days....metabolism-regulated. (but: everyone's body chemistry is different, so obviously, some experiences will vary)

DMT lasts about as long as REM sleep, and very few can describe the experience afterwards, even an hour after it's all been said and done; it even kicked Tim Leary's ass; and amnesia results from high doses of DMT.

if you haven't read "DMT: The Spirit Molecule", I'd recommend doing so; one particular subject was very cocky, because he had extensive high-dose LSD experience, didn't think DMT would faze him. a 0.6mg/kg I.V. dose handed his ass to him.

I don't like to acid trip anymore either. I've had it for 12 years, and just don't feel it to be beneficial anymore; I just prefer potent shrooms occaisionally, and dmt.
sorry if it seems like I'm arguing , I'm not trying to argue; I just think that the short-acting tryptamines give some of the most intense experiences
but to each his/her own.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, LSD is probably the only drug (or one of the few) that is potent enough to put into blotters. So you can't really replace it or adulturate it.
IMO, acid is much more mind-expanding than shrooms, so it's really up to what you are looking for.

 

I knew a kid who was going to do ibogaine, but never got around to it. I guess he couldn't find a place in his schedule to take a week out and trip balls in a jungle.

 

lucky kid.

ibogaine is pretty rare. virtually no market for it, it lasts crazy long, and shocks even an addict's soul. feedback loop of addiction gets broken: 80% recovery rate for heroin addicts, on average.

yet it's C-I ?!

heh

 

yeah it did hit me all of the sudden...it was during the peak part, but like the stronger wave or flash if you want, it must have lasted 20 seconds or sometn, then it started doing less and less strong flashes, at a pretty regular interval, does dmt do this?. each flash is like a monkey makin love to a hole in your head (lips), you cant do anythin bout it, if you try, it just takes you so fast, its like short consecutive salvia breakthroughs, in terms of intensity...Nayways, we stick to what we have lived...

Ibogaine...can it be any fun? Or is it really mild and more a meditation tool or sometn?