yea but i don't care how 'enlightened' you are, to just forget about the road is a foolish thing. it is the clay of a pot which gives utility to the space within. it is the walls and doors of a house that makes the space within valuable. to forget about the fundamental natures of the reality in which we exist in persuit of the divine is one of the most contradictory things you can do. that path can only lead to a dead-end. but to completely give into what you experience is also foolish. like archemetis said a middle harmonised ground must be found.
yeah as usual i have no idea what you're talking about, i think our conversations are passing each other in opposite lanes at 100mph and you are yelling what you think is a response to what i yelled. see you on the come down
I thought this thread was about love ? This thing we are all caught up in called life is to be experienced, and the subtler things don't really lend themselves to definition. It's when we try to categorize, quantify, define and explain the ineffable qualities of existence that we run into problems. Hence ALL the different religions, spiritual practices, and philosophies. Hell for all we know we don't even see the exact same wavelengths of light when we all look at red. We just have agreed upon a set of perceptions that appear to be the same for us all and thereby have arrived at a reality based on group consensus. Thats the best we can hope for in regards to what is real. Desos, who gives a shit about karma anyway? Sure there appears to be a cause and effect thing going on in the physical universe, but does that really mean that we each have an eternal bank account with +'s and -'s? I personally feel karma is a self absorbed concept to alleviate guilt and precludes unconditional love as the motive for right action. Doing good to offset bad karma really is about as self centered as it can get. Motives carry more weight than actions as far as personal spiritual growth is concerned. Again it's about love being the motivator that propels you into right actions towards others. "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing." 1 Corinthians 13, 1-4 I quote that from the New Testament not because of a need to "convert" anyone but rather because in my opinion it states my viewpoint above rather well. It is so easy to get all wrapped up in the many different teachings in the world, and they all have their value and place, but remember to always ask yourself this question; "Is this going to help and aid others in my life?" If the answer isn't a yes then what value is it in the end? Seeking to get ourselves out of this mess isn't really what it's all about. It's only in service to others from a motivation based in love that we truelly grow and progress.
i don't think of karma as a way for things to catch up with us, but it can work that way. when i am talking about karma, i am talking about fate. a person's karma is the same as their fate. there is just no escaping it, until it resolves itself. it's not all as simple as good vs. bad.
So if I understand what you are saying is that karma precludes freedom of choice and we should just resign ourselves to our lot in life until our karma resolves itself? That is exactly what I mean by it absolving us from guilt and responsibility in our daily choices, "Oh well it is just fate" that's the exact same as "it's God's will" and both our used as cop-outs far to often. I am confronted with choices every second of every day and have to live with the consequences of those choices. As I stated in another thread to you, "sometimes shit just happens" no karma involved, no mystical crap, nothing of greater spiritual significance to gain from it, shit just happens. It is how we choose to react to the shit that determines our character and spirituality. And contrary to what you might think, more often than not is as simple as good vs bad. And if it's not about "good vs bad" karma than WTF determines your fate, and why does anything have to be resolved? Don't you remember the "Hidden Hand", it's all about positive and negative polarities. So if that extra-terrestrial, group soul sort-of god like guy says it, then by cracky it damn sure is true!
Well, actually, the fundamental nature of reality is what makes the space within a house no different from the walls containing it.
well basically. but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should resign yourself. we still have control of our karma to a certain extent, it is just the context of our karma that we can't decide. well when shit happens then we are confronted with the option of how we will react. this is the greater significance. it might seem like there was no reason behind it, but there was. if only to challenge your faith. you guys keep asking me things like: 'well if that is true, then what is the signigficance of x, or how does x affect y?' things just can't be put into such confined terms lol. that's for you to decide. think of life as a neverending continuum. where we are on this continuum, determines our karma. where we move to on this continuum, is determined by how we react to our karma and whether we learn the necessary lessons for that point on the continuum. so in a sense we do have control. but there is a point on the continuum where it ceases to be so much linear and just begins to multiply exponentially, so to speak. this is where karma resolves itself, and where things become impossible to explain. it is the fact that we must live on this continuum, that we don't choose. why does anything have to be resolved? because it's awsome! it doesn't have to, but it wants to. yes but there is still a distinction in the oneness. just because you can see the forest for the trees, that doesn't mean you should forget the trees! they are still important! --- You say potato and i say three I am a pinball machine I can't tell the different between My bellybutton or my navel Pingping, poolcue, or a foosball table Why is it you ask me why I don't know the answer I don't transmit what hits my eye We're the same, yeah you and me Except you say potato and i say three I'm thinking of what i'd rather be Paramecium is lookin' pretty good to me I'd be so small you could not see I could still be your worst enemy
i tend to think of karma as predestined possibility. cause and effect, past choices lead us to where we are now. and so then, we are here now, confronted by possibilities that have very much been shaped by our history. iv often got the sence that certain scenerios iv been in carried a heavier weight, as if these posibilities were absoving karmas from past lives even. (but thats not rational ) everyonce in a while i meet someone whom i recognize though we'v never met. everytime these people end up close to my heart, affecting me in real ways. one time i asked "the spirit" (in my own way) about all these ideas, and was told very clearly that it really dosent matter. or at least, i didnt need to know. all one ought to be concerned about is living a heart centered way. from there, everything falls into place as it should. the external world reflects ones inner vision. manifesting unity and harmony . which brings us back to the original thread topic. lol at any rate, i appreciate the conversations that have been taking place on these forums lately.
Off topic, but great none the less. quotes from the show Fringe: Peter: "Walter what are you doing?" Walter: "I'm dosing a Caterpillar." Peter: "Dosing?, as in LSD?" Walter: (brimming with pride)"It's a special blend." from another episode: in response to an odd statement by Walter at a crime scene; Peter: "Walter, are you on something?" Walter: "You mean psychedelics? No, not since Thursday." I love Walter and the show is pretty good to.
Actually the saying is "you can't see the forest for the trees" Which has the exact opposite meaning from how you used it. The thought being that getting so caught up in the details can often result in one not seeing the big picture or Gestalt.
yes, and what i was saying is that he gets too caught up in the big picture to not see the small details. well when you guys get to talking about how everything is the same thing then i make the assumption that you don't have any distinction between them. thus no polarity, and no growth. P.S. is walter the one really strange older guy who is supposed to be crazy? the dude's dad who he has to decipher for?
that's a good way to describe it. the thing is it just isn't so simple as if you do this then you will suffer a consequence as a result. it is more like if you make real change in yourself, then real results in your karma will follow. this isn't just something you can do in one day. it takes a loooooong time. karma has everything to do with love. i can think of very few things which aren't. well i did just trip on acid! :smilielol5: just kidding. good job guys. :hurray:
Yeah that's Walter and Peter is his son. Walter is strange as hell but with an I.Q. of 196 a few points higher than mine, but then again I'm only half as crazy and don't know how to make my own LSD.
idk but does anyone else find that above average intelligence can also share a link to the amount of weirdness in a person?...Ram dass was one weird looking dude from what his interveiws showed, i just watched the other threads...But he also had the intelligence of a highly evolved pussy cat
He is a very great guy, I have met him twice, on two seperate occasions, just about two years apart, and he remembered me. Loooooove, like a mountain spring time crashing through the rivers of my miiiiind!
Ohh shit your considered special by Ram Dass....A angel has blessed you!!! lmao heaven is on your side
What I'm saying is that there is that you can discern without having to judge. Everything is One, and even after this realization, the ability to discern is still present. It is the lack of the need to judge things that is a fundamental quality enlightenment, not the lack of discernment.
