Morons would include those who post 4,982 posts under the Krsna forum perhaps to learn about Krishna consciousness, yet end up telling people to fuck off. And that my friend, would be you.
And where is the logic in this !!!!!!!!!!!! He had told that that would be rude, and hence he was ready to leave it at that.
Ok I'll have to spell it out since you obviously don't get it. You criticize science, I respond that without science you wouldn't be having this exchange on an intertnet forum. I then suggest that the anti-science view is silly, like wanting to go back to the stone age, to which all you can respond is 'why don't you go back to the stone age', which is somewhat pathetic and is in fact an admission of defeat because you can't deal with the issue and so attack the person. I've had enough of this on these forums. And I repeat, if you can't discuss properly, then do one. BTW this is NOT a Krishna forum - it is a Hinduism forum, and devotion to Krishna is only one aspect of Hinduism overall. If you want to just have a nice chat with other devotees, there are numerous ISKCON forums out there where you won't come up against opposition or disagreement, as the posters there are similarly brainwashed to yourself.
Ask Bill Blake. He seems to like to give the impression to be the most logical around here by telling people who disagree with him to fuck off.
You also forget the homosexual gurus appointed by Prabhupada to suceed him. They presumably spent years chanting etc and what good did it do any one of them? Also the criminal one's like Bhagavan Gurudev (whom I met personally)who stole money and ran off with another man's wife the day after he's had his brainwashed followers doing the usual daily grovel.
And we all know about many of the moronic stuff done by Iskcon dudes. Perhaps you guys should try to imbibe the last avatar Buddhas message of logical thinking and reason and to question everything and accept nothing blindly. Sage Vasishta says the same thing to Prince Rama in the Yoga Vasishta.Same with Vivekananda and Yogananda. Trust me, this will go a long way in getting rid of Iskcons image of brainwashed idiots.
Niranjan...I can't believe you just said that. Seriously. That is so... awful and untrue. Also, there is homosexuality among animals. On example is the bonobo, Pan paniscus, also known as the "pygmy chimp". Instead of harshly fighting like the regular species of chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) does, bonobos have sex with eachother to resolve issues. They make no preference between man or woman, they just have sex with whomever they are fighting with or want to have a bond with. Also, woman tend to be the heads of their societies, unlike regular chimps which are male dominated and have intense male-male competition and have gone as far as to kill one of their own species. Bonobos are evolved after humans and chimps had a last common ancestor, however. So we actually evolved from the violent ones, fancy that? I'm sure there is also homosexuality among animals that aren't primates...this is just one example that I can think of.
You know Niranjan, the only sensible follower of Prabhupada I've yet encountered is our own Brother Joseph here on this forum. I'm perhaps not 100% right in telling someone to fuck off - (not 100% wrong either) but over time, I've just had enough of these Iskconites who come on here and just repeat endlessly the same old stuff and won't admit even the least defect in their belief system, or make any attempt to take on board any serious argument. I doubt ISKCON will get rid of their image as you mention, because in the end, they are mainly brainwashed idiots who have seemingly lost any capacity for independent thought. Strictly speaking, one or two should have been banned before now, and over on the Christianity boards, people have been banned for lesser offences (not something I agree with in at least one prominent case - Bro Jo will know to whom I'm referring) - I mean the ones who just post up KC spam and don't want to discuss. These boards are for discussion, not for propaganda. Also, many ISKCON folks don't know how to 'reprazent' - they seem obnoxious and display intolerance, often resorting as in this case, to personal attacks when they are contradicted.
Hope I haven't committed any crime. Thanks for the info. But this will not influence me to indulge in homosexuality while bonding with males. Really sorry about that. Hope you understand!
As I said, I've seen male rabbits at it - Bonobos use sex as the basis for everything in their social order - in effect they practice free and totally unrestricted sex. I don't think humans should try to emulate that, but certainly with our spieces, sex has an enormous social significance, as well as being something of a key in psychological well being.
yea...I don't think using sex like bonobos do would be a good idea either. lol. Not just for emotional/psycological reasons (plus...I kind of think sex is a bit sacred)...but also that there are too many STDs around...it would just be unsafe.
Me niether! But I don't condem gays or exclude them from my presence - so long as they understand, and most do, that I have absolutely no interest in or attraction for sex with other men. Too busy lusting after the ladies to even consider it really..... I do feel that gays have had a rough time historically in western culture (don't know about Asia), and I feel they have an equal right to exist as I have. I don't look down on gays, and in fact, many of the greatest minds of the last couple of centuries were gay men, from Tchaichovsky, to Turin, never mind gays of olden times such as Michaelangelo.
2 excellent points Nicole. No one has mentioned the sacred aspect till now. Can homosexual love also be sacred? At one time , I might have thought not, but I have had to change my view on this, and accept that it can be. As you and some others know, at one time I was interested in Mother Meera, an Indian spiritual teacher living in Germany. The main book which first got me interested was 'Hidden Journey' by Andrew Harvey, a novelist and brilliant oxford scholar. In this book, Harvey makes no mention of the fact that he is gay. Anyway, it turns out he is, and after some time he fell out with MM because he fell in love with another man, and she refused to bless their union, but siad he should give it up, get married and have a family. Harvey also says that she said he should say she had 'cured' him of homosexuality. Harvey wrote a book, which is quite a harrowing read, but very intertesting, about his break up with MM called 'Sun at Midnight', in which he also decribes his relationship with his partner. Their relationship seems to me far more spiritual than that enjoyed by many a straight couple I know. So reading Harvey's book finally helped convinced me that it is something natural, and that old religious moral intolerance won't do, and is dishonest into the bargain. Sorry to digress, but it does relate to the issues we're taliking about. I recommend Harvey's book BTW to anyone who has problems with involvement with gurus etc and want to get out of it, and also as an interesting general read which raised many issues. 2nd point -STDs - yes. Great care is needed. Promiscuous sex is asking for trouble, not just from diseases like HIV but also emotionally. Better to have a one to one relationship with sombody you love, and then sex is part of the bonding process, and is a wonderful thing.
Darling, who ever said you had to? All I'm asking you is in the name of human decency and just respect to respect those who have a different lifestyle (that isn't really harming anyone) than you. I am not homosexual or even bisexual...but as I said before, my best friend (and many other very close friends) are and they are some of the most wonderful people I know and they are being hated for no reason...because they love different people than us... love isn't a crime. Neither is sex (as long as its not overused/abused which can be true for heterosexuals as well). Who people have sex with is such a private thing and its really sad that it needs to be paraded around and condemed by one's peers.
I think it is mainly because Iskcon takes Prabhupada as a role model and consider him to be infallible, which he is not. He is a scholar in the Vaishnava traditions and scriptures, and a superb organiser and a charismatic leader. But he has no background in science and is averse against Jnana yoga( the yoga of the intellect ) and hence reason . He underestimates science and logic. He also made some pretty dumb comments against Darwin and criticised his theory of evolution, and called Darwin's grandfather a monkey. Little does he know that he is only damaging his own cause, as the avatars of Vishnu clearly correlates to evolution as stated by J.B.S. Haldane. And these traits of Prabhupada is copied blindly by other Iskcon people and leaders. As Krishna himself said, "Whatever a great man does, the others follow." And we can see the manifestation of this psychological fact expressed by Krishna in Iskcon with some negative results.
I don't think I have criticized homosexuals as indecent. I revere all human beings because the imperishable Lord is within everything, including homosexuals. However I do have a problem with homosexuals who force themselves on others. If you check my previous posts , you will understand what I mean.
May I put this to you: how do you feel about hetrosexuals who force themselves on others? My ex girlfriend was raped by a lorry driver whilst hitch-hiking as a student years ago. She was traumatized quite deeply by it. I'm sure you feel abhorence for such things. All I'm pointing out is that gays have no monopoly when it comes to rape or attempted rape. If you have been subject to some such thing, I am sorry to hear it. I'm sure that as a spiritual person though you can forgive, and see that we mustn't let bad personal experiences colour our outlook in general terms. My ex girl didn't turn against all men because she was raped.
