Libertarians should oppose the Arizona Immigrant Laws

Spanish in Mexico = White in America
Indigenous in Mexico = Black in America

Equity can be achieved, though.

I don't think anyone here is whining about history so much as trying to make the point that the very people who are whining about the immigration problem are the descendants of the people who put in motion the events that created the very problems we presently have (whew). Their whining is nothing more than them wanting to maintain the superior position socially and economically as their conquering ancestors designed it to be.

Discrimination and economic superiority for the takers was designed into the system from the drawing of national borders to the exclusion of the indigenous peoples from the mainstream culture they designed. Even today in Mexico and other places, entire tribes of indigenous people are being sterilized, which is a continuation of genocide.

The solution, find a way to create equity, at least with us, share what your people took from mine.

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wouldn't indigenous in Mexico be the same as indigenous in america, i.e. our native americans....or are you just referring to the way they are treated? although i think the native american tribes really got the shit end of the stick....genocide through various tactics, the white takeover of their ancestral and hunting ground, and now they're stuck on indian reservations being exploited with alcohol, resorting to catering to the white portion of gambler's anonymous or dressing up in ridiculous costumes that have no relevance in their current culture, all to make a buck so they can live in tiny trailers and feed their family.....it makes me sad....

anyways, that was a bit off topic...sometimes i start thinking about things like that and just start ranting..

jack flash, i really think you just about summed everything up perfectly.

 

oh blah. Marijuana is still illegal in most states, does that mean people who smoke it are just common crooks? It was illegal just to be a jew or a homosexual in nazi germany. At one point in our culture slavery was LEGAL. So you get real. Its very easy for someone that is not suffering and starving under a hot mexican sun to sit in front of a computer and spew their opinion concerning government and legality, but when government makes laws they do it in a black and white fashion, whereas morality covers much more grey area. It might be illegal for mexicans to enter our country without going through the proper channels, but in my opinion its immoral for americans to turn their backs on the very real suffering of our southern neighbors.

So basically what you're saying is that all white people descended from european conquerers must return to europe because they surely broke the law of the indigenous cultures when they came to America and stole their land. And all the illegal immigrants must go back to mexico or whatever third world country they came from.... But wait, where do their employers go? the white people that break laws every day by hiring them? And you call this simple? I'm not sure I follow you....

 

For sure. America should be completely open to everyone in the world who's country isn't as good. People could starve waiting for their own country to plant farms snf build businesses to employ large-familied populations. The USA has a moral duty to provide opportunity for these people no matter how many there are. The US has a very low unemployment rate so it could easily absorb a hundred million more people or even twice that and not even notice it. And Americans do make a lot of money at their jobs so bringing down wages overall wouldn't be a problem. Plus, the country would then be bi-cultural and bilingual which is a fantastic opportunity for peaceful civic evolvement.

 

I dont think America has a moral duty to provide opportunity for anyone, actually. Thats not what I was saying at all. I actually think that businesses have a moral obligation to NOT provide jobs to illegals, because this leads to exploitation.

I merely meant that Mexicans and other immigrants that enter this country, legally or illegally, do so out of desperation. Desperation does not make a person a criminal and I dont think Americans should treat them as criminals.

Most people growing up in America, and many other countries throughout the world, simply cannot understand desperation on the same level that people in thirld world countries understand and experience it. Myself included, but I do try...I can't dredge up anything but sympathy for people that leave the ones they love, walk hundreds of miles through blazing heat, face prison or worse once they get to the border, and spend hours each day doing backbreaking labor for 2 dollars an hour, over half of that which they send back to their family. These people are not criminals.

 

Yes. People who sneak in our of desperation should be allowed to stay. The laws that say you must be here legally should be repealed. There are hundreds of thousands of desperate people who have been waiting patiently for years to immigrate legally and they'll be very happy to be able to finally stop waiting in line.

 

The indigiouus cultures from Alaska to South America are descendents of the same original settlers of 15,000 years ago. I was refering to the treatment of them. I don't think most Americans are aware that Native Americans are still second class citizens, even on their own lands.

thanks

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Sarcasm is a poor tool in debate. It just puts words in others' mouths. As i've said before, there should be harsh penalties on businesses that hire illegals. No jobs=no illegals. Thus solving the problem without wasting tax money for border control and building fences reminiscent of the berlin wall.

 

I am sorry but you must wait in line, that is how its done. I don't care how desperate a person is that does not give them the right to enter this country illegally. Illegals your day of eviction is coming, leave early and take your families and beat the rush.

 

can you change your avatar?

disconcerting to see the word "love" in there

[self-love?]

 

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Remember that??​

 

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

[as long as they have the proper visa]

 

The time for another amnesty has come.

 

More Socialist propaganda, Maybe?

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I was going to post that myself, neophyte. americans like to ignore that little inscription, i've noticed.

 

all of us? really?

some americans are in favor of free immigration

i personally would like to see all borders eliminated

i'm pretty sure jack flash is an american too -- does georgia count? [only to ten ]

we're just less noisy than the americans you're thinking of . . .

sorry if it seems like i'm picking on you

i probably lump americans together sometimes too, though i'd like to think i'm usually attacking the american government rather than its people -- but generalizations seem to be bothering me today . . .

 

Oops, broad generalization...I dont think I was thinking when I typed that, I'm american so I certainly know all americans do not think that way!

 

Depends, there is still a lot of support for the Confederacy here, but I was born in Ky., so I'm an American for sure. And, yes, I am in favor of open borders, drinks for everyone.

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Unfortunately that poem has nothing to do with the Statue of Liberty. It was read there and that is it. Why is it that this one group of people think, that they do not have to follow the rules. The one group I am referring to are "illegals". I don't care where you came from. Why should you be allowed to bully your way to the front of the line before anyone else who has waited in line can get in?

 

When the rules change to actually be fair than I'll care about people breaking them.