Libertarian: Pro gun Hippy

Bal,

We have more illegal immigrants than any country in the world. With this slackness on border control bc of 'no funds' we Americans are up against an influx of illegals pouring into the US through Mexico. Thousands of them are Jihad Muslim and yes, they are a threat to our life, liberty and our pursuit of happiness. They threaten our very fiber. They are taught to hate and kill us from birth. Yes, I see a threat there.

I live in a border state. It is more apparent in border states then elsewhere in the US. I have also lived elsewhere. I see what is in their eyes.. I see the hatred. I feel the silent prayer to allah for our agonizing death through torture.

They (jihad) own the motels and gas stations across the country They will not give you the time of day, some will not even serve our military in uniform. Yes, that is happening now.

Who do they think they are? Who do they think we are. I'm not wearing no burka. I bow down to no man. I will not have my grand daughters turn into chattel for men. We fought too long and hard just to get the acknowledgement and rights we do have, to let some third world religions fanatics to destroy what it took us so long to build.

We accomplished it without weapons but we were dealing with loving Americans. We did it bc we are the backbone of society and without us there would be no survival for the human race. Same for men. We rely on each other, we are equals on this planet There can not be one without the other.

Yes, I feel threatened. My government is not going to protect me for it is they that are allowing the threat to take place.

We can talk all day about what should be, but we don't live in should be. When should be gets here. They can have my firearms.

And I do pray for Peace in our time. Until my prayer is answered, I'll stick to my guns

 

The old joke - the sun never sets on the English Empire because god doesn’t trust and Englishman in the dark.

Thing is that the decline and fall of the English Empire actually saw the quality of life of the average British citizen improve greatly (especially women and minorities).

Height – Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee celebration in 1897
Obviously in decline (but ignored) - 1918
Last hurrah – WWII -1939-44
Delusions of Grandeur - Suez 1956
Last major colony given up – Hong Kong in 1997

In that time men and women got the vote, the standard of living of the majority increased we got the National Health Service and the welfare state.

And we have not been invaded and had our government overthrown.
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

 

That’s arguable, the French army was I’d say on a par and the Prussian’s if anything better, we had an edge in navy but the French were not that far behind. And from post French revolution up to the overthrow of Napoleon French armies dominated Europe. In India the ground work for later empire was made by private mostly native armies, and was often won more by guile and taking advantage of Indian rivalry than through force of arms.

What did it for the English Empire were the two world wars, these were total wars between great world powers and I’m not sure how that would pan out in today’s world of nuclear weapons.

 

The American War of independence that was again just a continuing of the British-French feud (that had been going on and off since the Middle Ages). And it has been argued that without the French assistance the rebelling Americans may have lost.

“French money, munitions, soldiers and naval forces proved essential to America's victory over the Crown”

 

If your world view is that there are thousands of hate filled fanatics out there just waiting for the chance to murder or subjugate you then yes of course you are likely to want a gun to protect yourself.

But remember that or something similar was often thought of about others - Native Americans (the only good Indian is a dead Indian), Orientals (the white slave trade of the yellow peril), freed black people (so said the KKK), communists (Reds under the beds), drug addicts/pushers (the war on drugs) and today Muslims (the war on terror).

To me it often seems like a means of political control, scapegoats are useful, fear (and hatred) can be tools to bind some people together while creating division with others.

If native Americans were brutal savages then you’d more likely go along with the stealing of their land and them being shipped off to reservations.

If black people were murderous rapists in the waiting them you might go along with the KKK’s tactics in keeping them ‘in their place’.

If all left wingers were really Stalinist communists bent on crushing freedom and world domination then they may then go along with domestic purges and a foreign policy that supported ‘ant-communist’ bloody handed tyrannies.

And if Muslims are all potential Jihad Muslims just waiting to kill and torture Americans you are more likely to go along with wars in Muslim countries, to get rid of ‘bad’ elements.

 

Yeah, I am not sure I buy that in the same context you mean. Also, not everyone who lives here is a decedent of immigrants (and I am not talking about Indians or blacks brought here as slaves).

 

While it would certainly have been difficult, I don't think one can conclusively say it never would have happened. It does make for an interesting "what if" scenario, but in the end it is all supposition and we'll never know one way or the other.

 

Who says you need to fire a gun to use it for defense?
Sometimes just showing it means you mean serious business.

Ha! This statement reminds me of all the educated folks Cambodia and the Soviet Union rounded up and killed off.

 

The idea of immigration denotes the movement to an already established state or other area with a political structure. Contrast this with the idea of settling. I don't think the Native Americans immigrated to North America. I believe they settled North America. In regards to America, there were many people of European decent here (primarily from the United Kingdom) prior to the formation of the United States, my ancestors included. As such, many families of European decent here in American did not immigrate but, instead, settled America and formed it. Any waves after that formation can be considered waves of immigration.

Also, the idea that this is a nation of immigrants is a bit misleading. Take the mass waves of Irish, Chinese, hispanic, and so on, immigration after the formation of this country. Without those waves America would still be here. Would it look different? Certainly. But it existed independently of those waves and would, most likely, without those waves. So, to say we are a nation of immigrants is wrong. We are a nation that has seen large amounts of it but we are certainly not a nation founded upon it.

 

My grandfather is part cherokee and often people ask him why he celebrates thanks giving and the like. If he is mad at the white man. He says no , because one he is part white, and he also says no, because before the white man as their common enemy, the tribes just stole from each other. You wanted that guys land just stick him with a tomahawk. The white man provided them with a common enemy to stop their squabbling, but if the white man never came at all, they would still just be participating in tribal warfare.

 

Not a great apples to apples comparison about how if we believe something isn't likely to happen that it leaves us vulnerable to it happening.

Assuming you aren't a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, there were many logical missteps that various levels intelligence community were ignoring, and not communicating to the other levels and branches of law enforcement. Critical information was just not being shared. T

The public at large was naive because up until then we had giant oceans on either side of our homeland that prevented homeland attacks by foreign entities, so we FELT secure, and the facts were pointing to the contrary and we found ourselves at the morning of 9/11. It sucked.

The muslim brotherhood taking over...highly unlikely given the strong Christian and Judaism blocks of people here in the states, in addition, most of the populace of the USA, truly understanding the separation between church and state (so this would be the part of the populace who might not have a faith at all but would be against this type of takeover).

Also I can't see the government bowing to the muslim brotherhood either.

 

I was neutral to most of your points until you said this...oh geez where do I start?

I could just as well say that the chemicals put in our food are done by companies for the sole purpose of maximizing shelf life to help maximize profits. But to make the additional claim that they're doing this to "dumb us down so we become 'sheeple' ", which is the term I keep hearing, goes to far.

First off, any uneducated behavior done by voters, can also be attributed to the fact that not enough people are willing to do research on voting issues on their own. Either they're lazy, they find that kind of research boring and/or their 8 hour work day keeps them too busy in addition to raising a family so they end up voting along party lines or for a single issue they care about that a candidate represents.

I don't believe any of this fluoride dumbing us down, conspiracy theory. If we're uneducated, it probably has more to do with our floundering education policy, like No Child Left Behind, and our youth who are usually procrastinating on their smartphones, bad teachers, and lack of funding.

 

"The Battle of the Chesapeake… was a crucial naval battle in the American War of Independence that took place near the mouth of Chesapeake Bay…The battle was tactically inconclusive but strategically a major defeat for the British, since it prevented the Royal Navy from reinforcing or evacuating the blockaded forces of Lieutenant General Lord Cornwallis at Yorktown, Virginia. When the French were able to achieve temporary control of the sea lanes against the British, the result was the reinforcement of the American army with siege artillery and French troops—all of which proved decisive in the Siege of Yorktown, effectively securing American independence." (Wiki)

As Sig says it is an interesting ‘what if’ to wonder what would have happened if the French had kept out of the rebellion (but I don’t think in those day they could keep out of any possible way of poking the English in the eye).

But what I do think is that the French don’t get enough credit, the myth that often seems to be promoted is that rag-tag army of republican American individualist’s all alone and through plucky determination beat up the British and throw them into the sea. When the real story is that they could not have done it (the way it was done) without the money and direct military assistance of one of the most powerful kingdoms on the planet at that time, which was ruled by one of the most absolute of monarchs.

I mean the claim often expressed by some Americans was that the rebels were fighting against despotism but the thing is that they were doing it (and possibly could only have done it) with the aid of a despot.


*

 

In a way the whole human race (homo Sapiens) living outside of a small area of Africa are all immigrants, on one side I’m Celt (Hungarian possibly) on the other I believe Norman (French that were immigrants themselves from Scandinavia) and along the way I may have picked up a bit of Roman (Italian), Anglo-Saxon (German), Norse (more Scandinavians) etc.

The language of Britain has been Celt, Roman, German, Norse, Anglo-Saxon, French, old English and English.

At one time I believe German nearly rival English as the language of the US (it doesn’t have an official language so the most used is the ‘principle’ language) that was due to immigration and now Spanish is catching up also due to immigration.

But in the scheme of things isn’t Muslim immigration to the US incredibly small? And how many of them actually 'hate' Americans enough to want to hurt them?