Liberals posing as freedom fighters.

Are we talking capitalism in the sense that we know it today or in historical forms as well?

 

You haven't defined who is considered to be 'members of my society', and even so a business transaction, with a member of my society or even someone who is NOT a member of my society, is one in which I fully expect to become a good and profitable investment or at least one without any loss of principle. On the other hand a charitable transaction is one in which I expect no return but only wish for the recipient to make good use of it. And yes, I feel I am entitled to be the judge of it being used well or not. If someone asks for money to buy food for themself or family and I see they use it instead to buy liquor, or something other than they claimed it was needed for, I would likely refrain from giving them money a second time, although I might buy them a meal or provide them some food instead. More often than not, money is spent most wisely by the person who earned it.

 

Okay, going to try and respond to everything, these posts are getting long and taking a lot of time to answer now, lol.

Serious trouble how? Government prevents these products from getting to market in the first place. How are people made aware of these products if, for example, the same company that produces the product also owns the majority of the media sources? This is where I feel that it becomes dangerous.

I guess I just don't agree with you that getting rid of government will take power away from corporations. I think that a well-run government is needed to keep them in check, and to keep them from gaining too much power. I don't think we will ever agree on this point, so maybe it is best if we just agree to disagree here.

I don't see it as a fallacy when that $100/week in taxes brings them more benefits than if they were to go out and purchase the same things in the private marketplace (which in countries like Canada and Sweden, it does).

If that person made their own fortune without paying their employees starvation wages and without destroying the environment, then I think that they are entitled to their fair share of that income. I think that they should still pay taxes though, because they would not have been able to create that business without a functioning infrastructure around them that needs to be kept up. They are also providing for social programs that will be available to help them if they get sick, or if their business goes under, etc.

To me, this is the reason your country is where it is. It is my main issue with the concept of unfettered capitalism. Maximize of profits, maximize material possessions, and fuck everyone else. I'm not talking about shutting down a company like Coca Cola, I'm saying that more of their profits should be distributed to the people who actually make the products (line workers, truck drivers, etc.). If they can't turn a profit without exploiting people, I don't think that they should be in business. (To be clear, I know nothing about the business practices of Coca cola and am only using them as an example because you are. I think a better example would be someone like Wal-mart or Apple).

Leaving the corporations with little power over government, but basically the power to do as they wish on their own.

Honestly, I don't really care about America. I'm talking generally, about what I see as the fairest type of system, regardless of the country.

I did not imply that you said anything in support of the oil industry, where do you get that from? My point was that you completely changed the topic of conversation so that you could talk about what you wanted to talk about instead of responding to the point I had raised.

If I had the time, I would go back and find at least a dozen posts where you've made personal attacks against other members here. Why do you think that you get banned so often?

 

Well I guess it depends on what you consider to be capitalist, but even if you punch feudalism in there, it is a very insignificant portion of human history.

I'm not saying that we should all abandon the system and start communes, but I think that the idea that a completely free market guided by an invisible hand cannot be considered to be our natural state.

 

Ahh, ok. I've heard some historians claim early forms of capitalism existed back in the 2nd Millennium, BCE. Before that, well, things get sketchy because written records are so very rare and it is impossible to really figure out how far back for profit trade/transactions stretch.

 

What we call capital should also be taken into consideration.