Lauren Southern Banned from UK

I fail to hear/see anything hateful she has said or done. Care to share such incidences? She never fired on a migrant boat as is being reported. You can see the video for yourself. She is for countries being able to monitor their own borders and is against human trafficking for slave wages workers and sex workers. She is supportive of brexit which does not make her racist or hateful, she is for legal immigration and does not object to people coming from other countries through proper channels. I do not see how being in support of brexit and speaking about it will bring on hatred tbh. Perhaps it can bring on some understanding for another point of view.

Just a point. Vladimir Lenin spoke in Hyde park, speakers corner and so did Karl Marx

It is pretty sad when, while you might not agree with the speaker they are denied a right to speak simply because they are labelled as whatever. If asking the question, “is Allah or Mohammed gay?” an issue, I think that anyone who takes issue with the question has the problem.

 

Lol. Don't you wish.

 

A few people on here sure do. But won't name any names just to avoid needless accusatory drama.

Indeed there are different sects of Islam, and not all muslims think and believe the same. Which explains why there's been so many holy wars going on between muslims of different belief sets over the last 1,500 years. I also agree that Christianity certainly has a checkered past regarding homosexuality. It doesn't help that Christians have destroyed several ancient books and literature that could've been useful to human civilization in this day in age. But I'll give Christianity some credit where it's due; homosexuals have been welcome into the clergy in the Catholic church since the mid 20th century. There's still not much room for homosexuals in Islam to this day. Plus, one religion's prophet was a carpenter who taught to love thy enemy. Another relgion's prophet was a war lord (and pedophile) who taught to conquer thy enemy.

Even though Islamic culture is not as good as the culture of western civilization, I still think there's a lot we can learn from them still. Their calligraphy and mosaic art is beautiful. Middle Eastern cuisine is delicious, and I wish there was a Lebanese restaurant in my town. Their architecture is also much better than all the modernist eye sores that are saturating the west.

Do Christians bomb Charlie Hebdo cartoonists and satirists who depict offensive pictures of Jesus?

Christians were sure offended by the Andres Serrano's "Piss Christ" photo art he did. But at the time, most of society protected Serrano's freedom of speech and no one got hurt. Whereas at Pamela Gellar's "Draw Muhammad" art exhibit, muslim extremists attempted a mass shooting, but were quickly killed by armed guards.

As Meliai said, not all muslims think alike.

 

I think the reason I'm so attracted to Lauren, is not just his stance and his bravery. He also has a similar facial complexion to my mother's. Studies have shown that people are more attracted to others who have similar facial complexions to their parents.

(Made sure to use the correct gender pronouns, since Southern is legally a man. Don't wanna be committing no hate crimes )

 

How Freudian, as is the gender thing.

 

Muhammad started out as a merchant, and became a military commander after the Hijra from Mecca and subsequent wars with opposing military forces. Calling him a pedophile imports current moral standards to 7th century Arabia. You can do that if you want, just as you can pick out aspects of Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc., to attack. The question is, where does this get you? Islam is here to stay, and we can try to work on living in harmony or conflict with it. I don't think you're being honest about your agenda, which seems to be to circulate a lot of agitprop to stir up fear and hatred toward Muslims. Southern Baptists don't have much room for homosexuality either. You could go after them.

Good. A positive step forward. I also think there's lots to admire about their religion as well, especially the emphasis on equality and charity.

You Mention Serrano's "Piss Christ". Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that destroyed by a bunch of French Christian fundamentalists in 2011?.
.Andres Serrano's Piss Christ destroyed by Christian protesters

You've acknowledged that Muslims come in varieties, but when push comes to shove you're back to "those Muslims" again It's a known fact that some of them are terrorists, belonging to outfits like ISIS, Al-Qaeda, and Hezbollah--out to spread violence and unrest. These groups will use any occasion, like cartoons about the Prophet, to stir up Muslims against Christians or the West.Let's not make it easy for them, by stereotyping Muslims. These groups don't represent Islam any more than the Christian Identity movement, the KKK, the Phineas Priesthood, and various Christian anti-abortion groups represent Christianity. Since 1977, crimes committed against abortion providers included 11 killings, 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespass, 1264 incidents of vandalism. Right-wing extremists have averaged 337 attacks a year, killing 254 people- including 25 police officers. Jim David Adkisson, a devout Christian and anti-abortion right-winger, walked into a Knoxville church on July 27th, 2008, and began firing a shotgun at children who were performing Annie Jr. He killed two and wounded seven, targeting “the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country.” Frazier Glenn Cross, the leader of the Carolina Knights of the KKK, was sentenced to death by lethal injection in 2015 for murdering a fourteen year old girl and two seniors outside the Overland Park Jewish Community Center in Kansas City. The man gave the Hitler salute during his trial and declared that “Jews are destroying the white race.” In 2001, after 9/11,481 documented hate crimes against Muslims in 2001 occurred when the Sept. 11 attacks set off waves of crimes targeting Muslims. In 2015, violence against Muslims reached 9/11 levels with a 67% increase from the previous year. Sikhs have often been victims of attacks, since the dumb Christian bigots can't tell them from Muslims. Jews are even more likely to be the victims of such violence. Of the 1,140 victims of anti-religious hate crimes in 2014,: 56.8 percent were victims of crimes motivated by their offenders’ anti-Jewish bias.” That amounts to approximately 647.52 instances where Jewish individuals, businesses or institutions were targeted. But there is also a power differential to consider. Christians, as the majority religion in the United States, are in a position to act against attacks in arenas not available to Muslims: Go after the National Endowment for the Arts if they don't like Piss Christ and similar offerings.Conservatives Still Pissed About ‘Piss Christ’ – MEL Magazine

 

Clarification: In my closing sentence "go after the National Endowment of Arts", I didn't mean in a violent way. There was a push for Congress to cut its funding in response to Piss Christ. Here in Oklahoma back in the Eighties, there was an effort to stop the showing of Scorcese's The Last Temptation of Christ at Oklahoma State University. The Regents banned it, but the ACLU got a court order. The United States and Western Europe have the benefits (and burdens) of highly secularized cultures and respect for free speech inherited from the Enlightenment. Yes, Islam is behind us on freedom of speech,press and religion. We can gloat about that and use our freedoms to goad Muslims by desecrating things they hold sacred, or we can try to provide an atmosphere for dialogue in which we can build the level of trust in which such matters can eventually be discussed civilly. Stirring up religious hatred like you, Lauren and Milo try to do isn't my idea of a productive approach.

 

Did she ask if Mohammad was gay? I don't think so. Everything we know about him points in the other direction. The pamphlet stated (not asked) that "Allah (God) is a gay God." I don't think anyone could make a serious case that the pamphlet was prepared to communicate arguments on the subject instead of to enflame a mob, insult Muslims, and risk a riot.--the very definition of fighting words. Kind of like a pamphlet entitled "Your Mother is a Whore."

In January 2017, Southern posted incorrect rumors that the Quebec city mosque shooting had been carried out by Syrian refugees; she later deleted those tweets. In May 2017, Southern took part in an attempt organized by a group to block the passage of an NGO ship which was leaving Sicily to start a search-and-rescue mission for ship-wrecked migrants off the shores of Northern Africa. In February 2018, Southern distributed flyers in the English town of Luton that said, "Allah is a Gay God". If this were simply a free speech issue, I might side with Southern, although I think her "speech" is unprotected fighting words. It is not simply about speech. Until she enters the U.K.she has not rights to anything in the U.K. As British authorities commented: "Border Force has the power to refuse entry to an individual if it is considered that his or her presence in the UK is not conducive to the public good." It's their call. The combination of fighting words supports the judgment of the British authorities.

 

Well god, Allah, Mother Earth, the great spirit, or whatever you want to call him or her.. it doesn’t matter if someone makes the statement. I do not care, I have heard that Jesus might have been bi, I believe he was married, especially when considering he was Jewish and a rabbi. They do marry and the role Mary played in his death was the role of a Jewish wife. This might offend people but that doesn’t make it a lie. It means it is possible and am I offended that some people might not agree with me? Not in the slightest. I won’t shut my mouth for fear of offending someone’s beliefs. Again the problem falls on those that take offence to it.

Let me just say je suis Charlie, Weeks before the Mohammed cartoon was one of Jesus and no one batted an eye, not even fundamentalists.

It was reported in the news, papers and tv here in Canada at first too. Your point? There was a guy sitting outside the mosque who was originally thought to be the suspect, at the beginning and was taken in for questioning.

First of all the ships are picking up people and they are being informed there are jobs in Italy, slave labour jobs actually. Cheap labour by big corporations, which means those living there, the citizens of Italy loose their jobs., while those coming in will barely survive on what they make.

She never fired on them as was reported, you can see for yourself. She was with nationals and is a reporter. She was there in support of them, since the government in Italy does nothing as the people suffer. The government is in the control of the eu, United Nations and the people are suffering for it.

They are coming from Libya to Italy. Did you know that Libyans hate hate hate Italians? They even have a day devoted to showing your hate towards Italians. So yes, let’s send Libya’s to the country they hate! To the people they hate. On that day, that week, white people can not leave their homesunless they want to die, beaten raped or whatever. Even though the day supposedly does not exist, it is still a holiday and recognized. they actually kicked all Italian and Jewish people whose family had been there since the 3rd century Properties viewed, money and everything, kicked out of Libya and that day is celebrated to this day. So yeah, let’s send Libyans to Italy. To the people they hate, that will solve things. There are not jobs for Italians, they can not house the numbers nor afford it and have no say because of the eu running the show.

Take a look at how Dubai was build and is built. Those doing it are in slave camps, that they can not leave and are not paid, but live in a shack and have food without their families, no money to send home as they had hoped, but they came for the prospects of work and can not afford to leave, even though they want to.. If you don’t think the same thing is happening In this situation you are delusional.

 

You miss the point. You have a right to express your opinions on any subject, no matter how obnoxious or ridiculous they might be. The U.S. Supreme Court observed that the First Amendment does not give anyone the right to cry fire in a crowded theater.Schenck v. United States, 249 U.S. 47 (1919). Presumably, that would apply to free speech in the U.K . as well. And an alien who has not been given entry to the U.K. has no rights in the U.K. at all. It's obvious what Ms. Southern is trying to do. She's trying to exploit the notorious touchiness of many Muslims when it comes to Allah to provoke them to violence or disorder of some kind in order to discredit them and stir shit. It's well within the prerogative of government to deny her that opportunity, especially since she's an alien not yet admitted to the country.

Christians don't have the same taboo against depicting their prophet, and particularly in secularized France, such publication would have little impact in the Christian community. But the publication was sued 13 times by Catholic organizations and only once by a Muslim one.The caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad resemble ever so much the caricatures of Jews in Nazi propaganda designed to dehumanize them. In 2009, Charlie Hebdo fired a columnist for and Anti-Jewish article, so they seem to have had a double standard. The French are entitled to allow a publication like Charlie Hebdo. Other countries are entitled to recognize a clear and present danger of public disorder. But Charlie Hebdo was not actively taken into Muslim neighborhoods and thrust onto people who were likely to be offended. Lauren took her publication to Lutton, a town in which Muslims are a quarter of the population. Lutton has been called "the epicenter of the global clash of civilizations" Independent (December 14, 2010) and a breeding ground for Islamist extremists. It was obviously Ms. Southern's intention to throw gasoline on a fire.

 

Muhammad's favorite wife Aisha was 9 when he married her. It's wrong now, and it was wrong then. It doesn't matter whether or not it was "legal" back then, but that's well before the age of sexual maturity. It doesn't help that the Quran mentions he hit her. This might have something to do with grooming gangs that UK is having a problem with.

I'm aware Islam is here to stay, there ain't much I can do about it aside from shine the light of realty upon it to those naive about it. You can keep on avoiding the dark reality of religiously motivated crimes (not just terrorism) in the name of Islam by shifting the attention over to Christianity. Atheism doesn't even have a clean record either. But TBH I'm not a christian, and I couldn't care less. Christianity used to treat women like second class citizens the same way Islam does to this day. I think in due time (maybe 300 years), Islam could progress forward. There's already signs of openly gay muslims in western nations.

In the meantime, how about we stop pretending that "it has nothing to do with Islam."

Well.. the last time I looked up the Piss Christ, it was in art history class back in 2008. And I was referring to it's controversial unveiling in 1987. As far as I can tell, nobody got killed.

But unlike anti-christian art, anti ISIS art like this is banned because it's insensitive

Art showing Isil menacing Sylvanian Families removed from exhibition

It might surprise you to know that I'm pro-choice. And I have strong contempt for Christian extremists who carry out jihads on abortion clinics. Or murdering psychos who use the Bible as justification to commit their crimes. But you don't see the media ever saying "it has nothing to do with christianity."

 

Interesting you mention Libya. My Senagalise roommate had a hard-on for Ghaddaffi. No joke. He was totally delusional and went on and on about what a wonderful leader he was for the Libyan people. There's no such thing as a good dictator. But the real reason he was murdered by NATO was because he wanted a gold backed currency that would compete with them. The idea that he was assassinated to liberate the Libyans was all a lie; if NATO cared about the well being of the Libyans, they sure have a sick way of showing. Sure, Ghadaffi treated his people like crap, and women walking unaccompanied by a man in Libya were seen as whores who were asking for it. But it seems my old roommate's only justification is that Libya is a greater hell hole than it was before.

But nevermind, progressive European corporations love cheap labor.

 

Doing a satirical cartoon and an anti Semitic article are two different things, especially when you consider what happened to Jewish people in France during ww2 with the Vichy government. They are not in their homeland anymore and are going to have to get use to it. Satire, cartoons A cartoon vs an. Anti Semitic article are two different things and this has no business, especially in France., especially considering the history of anti semitism in France. Took until the year 2000 for France to acknowledge this.. there are plaques all around Paris at Jewish schools that tells the number of children sent to camps and acknowledging their part in it.

I saw a woman, wearing a burqa with an empty stroller while in Paris trying to get into a Jewish school, the door was locked. I was reading the plaque on the wall at the time, so I started to take photos and she scurried away. It was very strange, , something just didn’t feel right. the street was empty when this happened, but I knew something was off and her scurrying away when I started to take photos confirmed it to me.

Anyways, back to Luton. Let’s look at Luton shall we? Do you sit back and let this happen? Or do you fight back with your own words? Is that acceptable to you? Who is exactly doing the instigating? That video is really sad.

A quarter of the population is Muslim in Luton? 3/4 are not you mean?so you must appease the 1/4 and ignore the 3/4? That is what the cops do as English non Muslim children can not walk home alone. They are thrown in the canal and propositioned on the way home.

When you are told you are not welcome and that this is not your country anymore! When you hear people saying they will turn buckingham palace into a mosque? That they are talking over and that you have no rights! When you have rocks thrown at you car for simply driving through? Who is provoking who? Personally I would avoid Luton, but can’t criticize people for challenging this either. Luton has a big problem.

Muslim rape gangs targeting English girls in Luton is also a big problem, so if that happened to your child, or in your town would you be telling your daughter to proceed with cation? Ex-policeman jailed for abusing girls The Barbary coat comes to England and white slave market exists. Are there England rape gangs that target Muslim girls for grooming?? Then the city gets their first Muslim police officer and guess what? He is into grooming and raping white English girls. Well that certainly makes things better, doesn’t it! Who is instigating? I know for a fact that this is happening in my city too. The Barbary coast comes to England.

How do you deal with this when you see your home town violence, assaults based on race coming from a majority immigrant population in Luton? What do you think will happen there? Do you demand of your government that they must do better and screening for who come in or do you just sit back and allow it to flow? That is what is happening.

I understand that not all are like this. And I understand there are good Muslim people, just like there is good English people on the left and right side of politics. people can not ignore this and sweep it under the rug either, which is what the British government is doing for fear of offending minority groups, or just blatantly not caring in order to have multiculturalism work, or it be perceived as working, without making changes. Do you call out the church when a priest who molests children or do you say, well not all priests are like that!? It isn’t crucifying all christians, it is acknowledging that it happened. Some will hate all christians for the illegal acts of a few, not all will though. Most of us want to see the good in people, not based on skin colour, religious, or political beliefs.

Did you actually see what Lauren southern did? I am thinking you did not, Literally it was probably 5 minutes of her setting up a booth before cops arrived telling her that she was upsetting Muslim people and basically told her that her life was in danger when trying to set up a gay rights booth in Luton and so was the cops life. If we are made in the likeness of god then god could be straight, gay or a lesbian, or bi, trans, etc.

If we as a community only allow for extremism and intolerance to set the rules then we are lost. I suggest you watch the video of what she/he did and judge for yourself, rather than just regurgitating pouring oil on fire as a reason to keep quiet. Tolerance for intolerance?

 

The bettling short comments lacking substance are typical of you. Is that really all you have?

I'm a tall white man with blue eyes, I am not Muslim, you should want me to help with the 14 words. Maybe I can.

walls=14 words
anti-muslims= 14 words

a rose by any other name is a rose. You may not think you are a 14'er but your posts say otherwise they would welcome you.

 

Jefferson had sex with his slave--and Mr. "all men are created equal" had other slaves, as well. It was wrong then and it was wrong now, but people didn't see it that way in our society back then. Let's tear down the Jefferson Memorial!

And that the Klan or the Christian identity movement have nothing to do with Christianity?

But the "art" was destroyed--by a Christian mob with hammers. We're living in a highly secularized society, and the literati who dictate such matters aren't likely to be concerned. You see this as good. I have mixed reactions. Muslims are certainly hypersensitive when it comes to showing disrespect for religion. But my reaction to that would not be to taunt them like a stupid playground bully. That's what your dear Lauren and Milo do, for purposes of political manipulation.

This is really reaching.I don't know anything about the Sylvanian Families. Look like cutesy kids toys. But I'd say the decision to remove violent looking figures from a satirical display parodying them was that of the people in charge, for reasons best known to themselves. Maybe they thought children would be traumatized. Police raised concerns about the “potentially inflammatory content” of the work, informing the organizers that, if they went ahead with their plans to display it, they would have to pay £36,000 for security. Seems like an isolated incident. What are your other examples? If they showed a teddy bear being beheaded, would the decision to remove that be an issue?

I'm glad you have contempt for those Christian terrorists.Terrorists of all stripes deserve contempt and much worse. But writing scathing posts about how bad "Christians" are because of them wouldn't seem like a constructive response to me. And I haven't noticed your doing it.

 

What you say lends support to the decision of British authorities to keep Lauren out. It seems to be an extremely volatile situation. She was trying to ignite it. She is a foreigner with no right to be there. Open and shut case.

 

It’s just that the person who throws the first ad hominem, such as calling me a 1488’er, are normally the ones who are running out of substantial arguments and lose their temper.

You might be afraid of being called a racist, but coming from you, the guy who made the Apu thread, that put-down means nothing to me. Nowadays many people from the left use the R-word in the same context as calling someone a jerk. And the problem with overusing that word in improper context is that people will stop taking racist accusations seriously, and disregard REAL examples of racism when they happen.

Just like the little boy who cried wolf.

 

I thought he said Apu wasnt a racist character

Whats a 1488'er?

 

Unlike Muhammad, Jefferson isn't a religious idol. Jeffersonian economists and ideologues don't worship him as a perfect being, and recognize he was a human with corruptible flaws. Nor do they condone slavery. Muslims see Muhammad as perfection. Besides, weren't Jefferson's slaves at sexual maturity at the time of his affair?

Yeah they do. But seriously, again with the Christian comparisons? I'm not a Christian. Fire away. lol

I support Serrano's right to photograph crucifixes in his own piss if he wants.

Which is why they ought to buck up, turn the other cheek, and NOT lash out in violent fury when their religion is disrespected. Many other religions have rolled with the punches, so why can't Islam?
Seriously bro, this is literally what you're starting to sound like:

I love them. They turn the most polite and civilized SJWs into a Trigglypuff in 5 seconds. If you don't know who trigglypuff is, I suggest looking her up.

My point is that an art piece that was anti-ISIS (not anti-Islam) was taken down in an art exhibit because they feared it could offend Muslims. Whereas the Piss Christ was not only allowed, but taxpayer-funded by the National Endowment for Arts, and they knew full well it would offend Christians and start controversy by being a "playground bully" as you call it.

Isolated incident? How about Pamela Gellar's Draw Muhammad exhibition. A mass shooting was attempted over that whole thing.

Two Suspects Killed, Guard Shot at 'Draw Muhammad' Contest in Texas

By caving into the demands of the extreme muslims, not dissing on their religions, we allow terrorism to work.

What would be the point of anti-christian rants on a left leaning hippie forum? It'd be a boring thread of preaching to the choir.

Are you getting ready for Ramadan? It's starting at sundown

 

That reminds me; if I were a shop owner, I wouldn't allow burquas. When I worked retail on Halloween day, I had to tell all the customers to take their masks off. Plus, you can smuggle and steal so much under such baggy clothing.

Sweden's solution was "Don't rape me" wrist bands to shoo away the assailants. Do you think it worked?

‘Don’t touch me’: Swedish police offer anti-sexual assault wristband

This deserves a standing ovation

Here's the video for everyone's convenience.

Start the video at 2:42



Besides, I'm not sure how calling Allah "gay" is so offensive to some people. I thought "gay" stopped being an insult back in highschool.

I mean, in order to be offended by it, you'd have to believe that being gay is wrong.