Language, what is it and can God write a book using it that only has one interpretati

What happened to the old Hoatzin you use to be above this sort of thing.

 

I just happen to remember what has been said and you don't seem to.

 

Is that why you said the same thing twice in two different threads in response to two contentiously different things?

You want me to rise above... what? Your posts? Because that's hardly a ringing indictment of their content. If I should rise rise above them, why shouldn't everyone else?

 

Why come up with something new when all you are doing is name calling?

Actually you have falling into name calling and that is what it would be good for you to rise above.

 

If I'm calling you names then shouldn't it be you rising above that? Not that I concede that I've "fallen into" name calling. I may have sprinkled my posts with the occasional ad hominem but I don't think I've ever done it to the exclusion of more reasoned points.

So: is this thread about me, or is it about something else?

 

perhaps you should reread some your last posts.

 

Perhaps you should rise above it. Turn the other cheek, anall'at, anall'at.

 

written by Hoatzin
"I find it amusing though that you think that the Bible is as or more specific than this. I mean, I've not read it cover to cover, but I've read enough to know that that would be utter nonsense"

Isn't it odd that the people who question the validity of the bible have not read it or seriously studied it. The bible answers 2 of the most important questions that cannot be found anywhere, but cannot be seen with a mere glance..

Why are we here?
What happens to us when we die?

40 writers over a 1600 year timespan inspired of God

I, myself, criticized the Bible, calling it a book of lies and misconceptions, a bunch of bologna, written by imperfect men..had I ever read it? No..where did I get these ideas? just from being in the world, listening to other people criticize the bible who had never read it. I find that interesting in itself.

I do believe that the bible is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving and setting things straight.

 

I think you've misread me. I am not arguing that the Bible is a book of lies and misconceptions. I have merely argued that it is subject to the same issues of interpretation that all language is, in response to OWB's claim that it isn't (or that language isn't subject to those issues - it varies from post to post), and so that it would be illogical for anyone to state that there is a single correct interpretation.

I have to say though, I don't think the Bible answers either of the questions you mentioned. But I won't bore you with my reasons for thinking/not thinking this, as I'm sure you've already heard them from a gazillion other people.

 

what's incredible? is G. Bush reading of and then enacting Revelation ch.9 .

i got to looking at that story different bibles . odd though ... usually that story ends with ' and nothing much got resolved' , but then there's one version that says everything would turn out so very ok in Iraq that no Armagedden would be necessary . maybe i was hallucinating . indeed , i was a bit excitable at the time and didn't even note the title of that one odd Version. oh , well . i don't really care about the subject anymore . it's become a vague and eccentric memory i note for its oddity and that i had made some street art of it out in front of the christian kid's coffee shop . i did the Fall of Babylon about the same way . Fallen , fallen ... two towers fallen . nobody really cares , so i make art , and it's not any awful sort of art and the chalk just goes away with the rain .

 

Perhaps you failed to notice that's what I've been doing. While you've been name calling, instead of returning the favor, I've been calling for you to stop and return to the discussion.

 

That's not turning the other cheek. That's being a boner.

 

I know you are but what am I?

 

I originally posted this in rudenoodles thread but it really belongs over here.

Open mind or not the Bible is easily misinterpreted and even more so if you read it wanting it to say what you want it to say. In fact it’s commonly understood that you can get the Bible to support any belief you want including atheism.

But what I’ve been trying to say, albeit you would probably agree clumsily, is that the Bible has to be understood as a whole and if you misinterpret any part of the Bible then that makes other parts of the Bible not make sense and that the only way to make the whole Bible make sense is to have the proper interpretation of all it’s parts.

Much like the crossword puzzle I mentioned earlier, if you put the wrong word in the puzzle then you can’t solve the puzzle until that word is changed and replaced with the right one.

Likewise the Bible seems to be designed to only make complete sense when you have the right ideas, concepts or if you will, interpretations in place.

 

I'd like to query this: how does this fit with the notion of God writing a book to tell people how to be good? It seems to imply that the Bible would actually just be confirming what people already believe - i.e. that if they're already good people, the Bible will tell them how to be good. Couple that with the other statement:

And I don't see a particularly transparent guide to being a good person.

 

First, the Bible is not just a book to tell you how to be “good”. It also tells you who God is and why things are the way they. It also tells what is going to happen in the future to change things for the better and what you can do now to be a force for “good”.

Second, the bible is set up to help you change your “beliefs” so they will be in harmony with what the bible says, if that’s what you want. So that you can be a “good” person, if that’s what you want. The Bible also helps you to see how mankind went wrong in the past and how that can be changed in the future.

And last, yes the Bible does confirm what you believe, if you have come to believe the “right” things, then the Bible can confirm that. If you don’t believe the “right” things then the Bible can guide you in changing your beliefs, again if that’s what you want.

Like I’ve said before, it’s a little like a crossword puzzle, no one starts off with the whole thing solved in their head. They start filling in as they go and as long as they fill in the right words the puzzle continues to make more and more sense and generally becomes easier and easier until it’s solved. That is unless you put a wrong word in then it can’t be solved till that word is changed. Likewise the Bible becomes easier and easier to understand as you fill in the “right” ideas, thoughts or concepts but if you have the “wrong” ideas, thoughts or concepts, there are parts of the Bible you will never understand until you change those ideas, thoughts or concepts.

The statement that I made is merely pointing out that a person can twist whatever he wants to mean what ever he wants but that in no way means that is a correct interpretation of what has been written. But the Bible seems to be set up in such a way that the more a person twists it and puts his own interpretation on it, then the less sense the rest of the Bible makes.

Quite simply when reading the Bible you can do one of two things, you can hold on to what ever you believe and when you come across something that doesn’t agree with what you believe you can say that doesn’t belong in the Bible and ignore it or come up with some fantastic rationalization or you can read it with a willingness to change your belief so that the two scriptures now harmonize with each other without the need for some complicated rationalization.

 

Yeah, you say that people can "twist" the Bible to their own end. That, I have to say, jars with my current experience, of being told that my own interpretation of it is "the wrong one". I have never knowingly "twisted" the Bible, and your use of words strongly suggests that such "twisting" would be intentional. Maybe I am misreading that.

It is probably a moot point though. I don't believe that the Bible is the word of God. I suspect that you would consider me too closed-minded to enjoy this incredibly important crossword puzzle on those grounds alone.

 

Yes, the twisting can be intentional sometimes but not always, sometimes it's unintentional, much like using a magnifying glass that has a flaw that you don’t know about, the image is still distorted though not intentionally.

Assuming, as I do, that God exists and that the Bible is the word of God, I would have to say to fully unlock what the Bible has to say, you would have to have or develop at least those beliefs.

I hate to use the term closed-mind because of the bad connotation that it has and being closed minded is not always a bad thing but even you must admit that your belief that the Bible is not the word of God would at least flavor what you read in the Bible.

As for enjoying the Bible, there is much to enjoy in the Bible even if you don’t understand it completely, such as the 23rd Psalm or the Sermon on the Mount both considered great works of literature in of themselves.

 

i'd think the nature of believing in holy words would help an honest person hallucinate what needs be known . understanding is always and totally the reader's . like as it won't ever matter what i say , just what is heard and then how hard i get smacked in the head .

 

I would say the same about your belief that it is.