Labels

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Meagain, Sep 3, 2013.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Lately I have been seeing an increase in the public practice of labeling others based on our perceptions of them. Some labels are benign while others are meant to present the individual or their ideas in a negative manner. These negative labels can take several forms:

    The milder examples may be “Liberal” or “Conservative”.
    Stronger varieties may include Redneck, Hippie, Tea Bagger, or Tree Hugger, all with negative connotations.
    Degrading ones may be “Gun Toting NASCAR trailer trash” or “New World Order Libatard”.

    Negative labeling during a discussion is often the result of an inability to address criticism of an idea through lack of favorable pertinent facts, a lack of critical reasoning, or unwillingness to devote the time to meaningful research.
    In these cases negative labels are often employed to attack an opponent instead of the opponent’s ideas.
    Another form of using negative labels is the Fallacy by Association.

    Bob claims that funds for school breakfasts are good.
    Some Liberals claim funds for school breakfasts are good.
    Joan states that all Liberals have only bad ideas.
    Joan labels Bob as a Liberal and therefore his idea of funding school breakfasts is bad.

    This is not an attack on Bob’s premise, but an attack on Bob by associating him with a group that Joan has already defined as having bad ideas. Bob’s idea is never evaluated, only his association with a group that has been given negative connotations by Joan. Thus, by association, Bob, like all Liberals, can only have bad ideas and any thing he says is obviously wrong.

    In another example,

    Sue argues that modern biology supports Intelligent Design.
    Paul states that Sue is a Conservative Christian and so, naturally that is what she would say.
    Therefore Paul insinuates that because Sue is a Conservative Christian, and in his view all Conservative Christians support Intelligent Design, Sue cannot show that biology supports Intelligent Design.

    This example rejects any arguments made by Sue in support of a biological basis for Intelligent Design because she is a conservative Christian.
    It is an attack on her, not the argument.


    The use of negative labels can also occur over time.
    Jan can explain why the NRA is a negative influence on society in one thread without mentioning anyone in particular. The claim of a negative effect does not have to be established as true, just repeated often enough to appear to establish a relationship between the NRA and negative influences. Then after the association with the NRA and its negative effects on society are established, at a later date, in a separate thread, all he has to do is to call someone a card carrying member of the NRA to initiate an attack upon the person in question in an attempt to nullify his position by attacking him as a person, not by attacking his ideas with logic or facts.


    The core of many discussions or debates is a disagreement and the ways of disagreeing can be envisioned as a pyramid starting at the top point with the most reasonable and effective method:

    Refuting the Central Point.
    To refute the central point you would restate the point,
    You have said that <quotation> but this is wrong for the following reasons...
    This is an explicit refutation that is clearly defined and leaves nothing implied.

    Next is plain Refutation.
    In this case you may disagree with a general idea, then you must find a specific quote or passage to which you can form a rebuttal. Then the reasons for the rebuttal are presented. If no quote or passage can be found you are probably looking at a Straw Man argument.

    Next is the Counter Argument.
    The Counter Argument is the first form of a convincing disagreement.
    After the disagreement is established, facts and reasoning are applied to bolster the position.
    Problems arise when the Central Point or the Counter Argument has not been sufficiently established and two people end up arguing over something that they both actually agree on.

    Contradiction is the first actual response to an argument.
    Once a point is made the opposite point is invoked as in the following example.
    “There is no bases for dismissing intelligent design as intelligent design is a scientific theory.”

    Going lower on the pyramid we can respond to Tone.
    “I can’t believe you would dismiss intelligent design so easily.”

    An Ad Hominem response could take the form of the Negative Labeling examples given above.

    And the lowest form of response is Name Calling, as in:
    The goal is to respond from the top of the pyramid, not the bottom.
     
  2. AiryFox

    AiryFox Member

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    Or, sometimes a spade is just a spade. ;)
     
  3. Heat

    Heat Smile, it's contagious! :) Lifetime Supporter

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    I really enjoyed this post and your thoughts. :)
     
  4. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    I often wonder if English is more predisposed to this sort of thing than other languages.
     
  5. Piaf

    Piaf Senior Member

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    Is English your only language?
     
  6. SpacemanSpiff

    SpacemanSpiff Visitor

    i still don't understand the whole tea-bagger thing in the US...im pretty sure it means something totally different here
     
  7. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Sometimes true.


    But one thing I have personally noticed (that is starting to drive me nuts around here specifically), is the use of everything the OP described--- being used to make everything that certain posters say automatically wrong and without merit. Whereas, even when you don't agree with a certain person, if you stop with the labels and the always right/always wrong and really read what they are saying you often learn something useful from what they are saying...and even if not, when you show a bit of respect, you can have a civilized debate with them AND they may actually learn someone from you and your viewpoints.
    I have viewpoints on here that differ from some other people, but ... whereas I see other people just saying "this person is X so they are wrong"... I don't do that (nearly as much) and I have had great discussions with differing viewpoints (people)...
    the funny thing about it all is, if you have any interest in changing someone's views or getting more people to see/agree with what you say or believe... well, guess what? the showing respect works a whole lot better then the automatic labeling of all they say and the disregard of all they have to say. Just sayin. ;)
    Works a lot better ...and often shows how people labeled as diff things often believe in many of the same things and just have different wording or slightly different views but you can work together. :)

    (all I've said is pretty vague and general...and I COULD give specific examples..but I won't because a lot of you will know exactly what examples around here I am likely talking about anyways. AND IT GOES BOTH WAYS!!)
     
  8. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    Thank you
    Considering I just posted this in another thread, I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognizes this;

    and your examples and explanations are spot on.:2thumbsup:

    I will admit I do get exasperated at times and resort to the "your an idiot" response, but only when they are an idiot, otherwise then they are just a moron. :p
     
  9. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Hey....some people are just idiots. :D

    but yea... people may be surprised by some of what I do and don't agree with. I don't get a lot of judgment either way though around here because I try to at least see all sides of things but I'm not necessarily what people would think and a lot I keep quiet about.
     
  10. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    At the moment, yes. I used to know French reasonably well, but I've forgotten most of it due to lack of use. :(
     
  11. *Yogi*

    *Yogi* Resident Racist

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    I was labeled out of the gate, Didn't even have a chance :(

    On a side note, As a whole and reading some threads and what not, Most if not all get along as a 'whole' and are predictable in what they will say as mentioned.

    I don't care about the lefts going super left or right going out there, To me its stupid and splitting the masses you did have to two groups against each other.

    Another plus side, I did not know sticking drugs up you're ass gets you higher lol along with the multiple ways and lubes to use for masturbation. Learn something new everyday on HF LMAO.
     
  12. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    Oh, yea... gotta plug those ecstasy pills. ;)
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I forgot to say that I don't mean to single out any individuals.
    I am sure that at times I am guilty of everything I posted.


    We all need to work on ourselves.
     
  14. *Yogi*

    *Yogi* Resident Racist

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    Do people ever ask for a 'hand' while trying this method? LMFAO
     
  15. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    haha...maybe...

    usually though they just ask for advice "how far up to put it?" "a half a finger's length" lol...
     
  16. *Yogi*

    *Yogi* Resident Racist

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    Nah, You have to get a Playtex applicator, For ease and comfort lol.
     
  17. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    I knew someone who almost died from a wine enema.

    Stuffing things up da butt bypasses the digestive system and liver so whatever you do packs a lot bigger punch.

    but I wouldn't label those people as some kind of pervert or anything.

    (staying on topic)
     
  18. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    I've only tried it with ecstasy.

    The whole alcohol thing (the wine enema comment)... I never understood people trying to get alcohol down faster than DRINKING IT. We once knew a guy who took a big horse syringe and shot up vodka. Why? Taking a shot of it orally wasn't fast enough. okaaaaay.
     
  19. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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  20. AmericanTerrorist

    AmericanTerrorist Bliss

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    How did this thread get to be about plugging pills and stuff? lol. Sorry meagain.


    ohhh good job putting it back on topic noxious.

    yea I wouldn't call them perverts either... or even drug addicts.
     

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