Kicking global wealth out of the driving seat.

Oh shadow please read the posts – I’m not ignoring it I’ve faced it and highlighted the huge flaw in it.

Just because someone believes with ideological certitude that everything will work perfectly if only their ideology was perfectly in place, doesn’t mean that in reality it would work or even be achieved.

I’ve had exactly the same argument with ideologically certain Communists and Anarchists. Who believe that everything would be perfect if only there perfect ideology was in place perfectly.

I’ve read a lot on political theory and the free market utopia has a lot of the same flaws in it as the Communist and Anarchist utopias.

The problem that although they look fine on paper turning them into practice comes up against one great problem, the world and the people in it are not perfect.

*

LOL - This sounds so like a revolutionary communist; - ‘making a true communist state is very easy comrades. All you have to do is put the workers in charge’

To me it’s always worrying when someone becomes so blinded by ideology that they step out of the real world.

 

I agree, there is a real problem with certain people not understanding the difference between "I pointed out" and "I proved".

 

Have I proved anything?

I put forward ideas, views, arguments that I think are right and believe I could defend, I mean would anyone present ideas they didn’t think were right and didn’t think they could defend?

That’s not claiming I’m right only that I think I’m right, and anyone here can challenge my viewpoint, in fact I keep trying to get people to challenge my views.

Come on give me some rational arguments that you think show my arguments to be mistaken.

Because I’m going to carry on challenging other peoples views that I think are mistaken or challenging on things that I think are amiss or asking questions that are of interest to me.

You see that is what debate is.

 

We have, and you respond by being a complete troll.

That's why people no longer see much point to you being here.

 

I get your point, but that's not quite true, the government intervenes by providing tax incentives and loop holes, and now subsidies. I agree there needs to be more oversight to ensure that corporations are honest when it comes to fair trade and accurately reporting the value of their assets to their investors, but we need to eliminate the subsidies. However, if it comes down to a decision between subsidies with oversight, and pure free market without oversight, I'm leaning toward the latter.

 

Any governmental outline would work if the people in the driver's seat were not corrupted. Socialism would work great IMO. But the people that head governments are the ones in control. Not the system itself. In that fact alone, people do not like to even know. Let alone accept that their lives are dictated by higher up elites in every level of what system you are governed by.

They all shake hands behind the scenes and then in the scenes act as if they were enemies all along.

 

What exactly do you mean by this?

 

Enron-Lack of enforcing regulations already in place, Enron performed illegal activities
Mortgage industry - The whole thing that started the chain reaction to this mess was Freddie and Fannie, 2 companies who investors believed were backed up by government funds, and who Clinton, followed by Bush, pressured to make risky loans to borrowers who really couldn't afford buying a home.
Chrysler and GM - The free market originally took it's natural toll on them, 2 companies that failed at making a product people wanted and with a shitty business model failed...............until they were bailed out.

 

What I mean is people are not to be trusted to do the right thing when it comes to money.Nothing new there.Who was over seeing these companies?Obviously not the right people. The ones that had oversight or were supposed to have oversight fucked it. They were either negligent,stupid,collusive or a combination of same.I get your point about the auto companies,Syd.The bastards were too conservative in their thinking to think changes might some day be needed.I had a little Ford Fiesta that got 49 miles to the gallon(shouldn't have sold it).Now why didn't the auto companies have a contingency plan to gear up in a hurry to make cars like that?They weren't forward thinking at all--too easy to take the conservative route.Whoops-Tit in wringer.Advertising didn't help,playing to americans lust for bigger-faster -keep up with the Jones's type bs.Another issue=why does anyone think that our borders were able to be breached so easily for so long.And still are.Cheap labor that is mostly afraid to unionise lest they be hustled back to where they came from.I knew that in the long run that was not going to work.As soon as they became citizens and gained the vote,they would also learn that no one would come in the dead of night to "disappear' them here in the USfor organising.Look at the politicians kissing hispanic ass now.Long term they'll be Democrats and the repubs are trying to figure out how to get that vote.Since most repubs in power are traditionally against unionisation and since most illegals work in the trades--it's coming back to bite the repubs right in the ass.

 

Actually I don't think Freddy and Franny made any loans they only insured them much like AIG and they were actually held to higher standards.

 

We’ve been through this scapegoating before I remember when someone called them the toxic twins

http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=328058&page=2

 

If you trust the Gov/System with your money now......why type about change.

 

you realize this statement couldn't be more far from the truth. your ideals are much closer to communism than mine will ever be. when the government is in charge the workers will never be in charge and nothing will ever work. here is a prime example of how the government fucks things up (though this is not economy related.)

i own land out in new york near pennsylvania and a while back the government decided to plant thornbushes all over the place to act as fences. the thorn bushes took over and killed everything. the government made it illegal to cut down these bushes becaause they put them up. out land is infested with these thornbushes almost to the point that the land is unusable. if the government can fuck land up this bad i sure dont want them in charge of my finances and the economy. o wait they used our money to plant the bushes. the government cant do anything right. give people freedom to do as they please and things will get done correctly.

 

You do realize that he's just going to say the same thing...


over...


and...


over...


He's a broken record.

 

o i know. its like listening to my cat. all she ever says is "meow." it gets old after a while. hey maybe my cat could put up as good a debate as balbus.

 

..................................................................................................

My greatest fear of goverment sponsored health care is attitudes like the one portrayed above.

If we are to entrust larger responsibilities to goverments we are going to have to watch what they are doing.

Our media and press are beyond incurious in the realm of public scandal. Yet let a capitalist commit a financial crime and its all over the news.

On The Left; its time to circle the wagons and protect cronies in the FNMA / FHLMC family and keep the gravy train flowing.

FHLMC & FNMA set the standards for Conventional mortgagelending in The U.S.
Around 1997 +- they dropped required credit scores to below 620. They reduced reserve requirements ( cash in the bank post-closing) They also made cash-out-refinancing easier and less restrictive. They also indulged and empowered cowboys like Angelo Mozillo and Countrywide lending by purchasing loans on easier terms with reduced scrutiny.

Ever read any stories about Connicticut Senator Christopher Dodd and Angelo Mozillo?


iggy:

 

LOL - This sounds so like a revolutionary communist; - ‘making a true communist state is very easy comrades. All you have to do is put the workers in charge’

Again this is just a biased assertion not an argument. I’ve set out why I think that moves toward a free market would most likely lead to a plutocracy, you’re not putting up counter arguments you’re just telling me I’m wrong and that governments are really, really bad.

As to your example how am I meant to verify it, how am I meant to understand it?

 

to verify it im sure you can find it somewhere in NY state laws or acts. i dont know where u would find it since i saw it with my own eyes. that and i have no reason to lie on here. i dont really care about ur opinion balbus as u live in the UK. ur big government anti-freedom ideas cant further harm america. unfortunately we have too many people like u. i bet uve never lived in the country and u have always lived in a city or suburb. because of this u have probably never tasted freedom. people in rural areas tend to lead happy lives and are more free to do as they please because the government simply cant watch over them as easily.

 

Shadow

So basically you are saying you can’t actually verify what you said?

It doesn’t matter if you ‘don’t really care about my opinion’ the point is you don’t seem to have any arguments that can refute what I’ve said. So they would seem to stand.

I grew up in the country side, born in a tiny hamlet in northern England, lived in a succession of small rural villages. I’ve also worked in some of the remoter areas of Britain, France and Greece. It is true that I now live in London, out of choice, and am very happy here. What I’ve learned in life is that people can be happy or sad wherever they may live.

As to some of your other comments they come across as a little paranoid.

 

no my statement about the bushes can be backed up as im sure the law that forced them to be planted can be found. i just have no reason to go look for it.

as far as paranoia there is none to be found. its called realism. the government never seems to get anything right. it cant catch one man in afghanistan nor can it win a war with people who have technology that is far inferior to ours. why? because the war is illegal. the US never declared war in iraq nor afghanistan. the last legal war was WWII for america. here is just another example of the government ignoring the constitution. this is also why we have to play nice with the enemy. if it were a real war we would have been able to take out iraq and afghanistan very easily and quickly. instead our soldiers must wait to be shot at before firing back. if u think that giving the government control over the economy is going to be any different than a communist state u are sadly mistaken. unfortunately people like u will only understand this to be true when its too late. you may not consider yourself to be communist but that is very much ur ideals whether you admit it or not. your going to say that im uneducated or something to that effect but i can say the same about u because while i say im libertarian (as my views actually follow) you will say that im right wing. since i have posted here you have said about 3 different things. most of which are false. i will no longer respond to any of ur statements unless i find something new or valid so dont bother posting something if u cant fit either of those 2 criteria and expect me to respond.