karma has a way of biting you in the ass when you need it

Karma makes much more sense to me than this concept of heaven and hell.

The idea that you're punished or rewarded for your life's deeds after you die, like Christian holidays claim, is a decent enough idea but makes little sense.

But karma makes much more sense - not only does karma place you where you deserve to be placed after you die, but it rewards or punishes you while you're still in this plane of existance at the same time.

Don't you think?

 

I DO think. I truly believe it. I also believe in past lives and a cosmic energy connection between all living things. How about you?

 

I don't believe karma places us in the place we deserve to be after we die, I think we go to the same place. But I definately believe in karma. And the cosmic energy/ universal energy connection b/t everything that is and was ever here.

 

Perhaps the only real punishment here is the fact that we won't progress unless we develop. Love energy develops; hate energy disintegrates. Through Love energy we develop and are capable of attaining higher planes of consciousness. And when life turns the lights out, what remains? That consciousness you've been developing, of course. So if you've wallowed in negativity your entire life, your "punishment" may be that, at the time of your death, nothing happens at all......

 

I don't think we stop existing or stop developing, I think our souls/energy remain. I think just in a much slower pace and on a different plane. I think that this world influences the outer world(or whatever you wanna call it) and vice versa in the different areas of development and state of the spirit.

 

Very much, Tarabelle... like ripples in a pond, we're all part of a cosmic energy that eternally binds us together, and we go through lifetimes of taking on new forms.

 

I think this is unlikely to impress children in Africa with no food etc, or in Iraq or Palestine. Unless there is a kind of collective national karma, it is hard to see how the innocent vitims of war, famine and disease are responsible for their own circumstances, or that they've been placed 'where they need to be'.

And even in the case of people who seek to do only good, often they receive no 'reward' in this life - indeed, many suffer much more than 'evil-doers', the proverbial 'wicked' who prosper despite their acts.

If there is a law of karma, then its action must be very complex, and it seems to me that individual karma only goes so far, to an extent we are all stuck with huge collective karmas belonging to races, nations, religions, and also there could be a karma of the cells of the body themselves...

 

The sad reality is that it's difficult to develop good karma when you're living in abject poverty in places like Ethiopia or Iraq....the struggle to survive saps one's energy, drains one's life. Even in our own lives, it's amazing what a toll stress exacts on us spiritually.

Unless there is some charitable force out there that compensates one for a life of misery, most of those who live in poverty are condemned to simply try again in the next lifetime.....which is why the achievement of Mother Teresa is so overwhelming.....

 

Or maybe, they have influenced their present conditions by actions in past lives.

 

it's all a big pond of karma.... ripples go everywhere...

 

it may make sense, but the world isnt simple... so why should the answer be simple??

i do trust karma, but i also trust more, just a question i have

 

Tell you a secret: there is a way to transcend karma:
"Whatever you do, do it as an offering to Me " (Bhagavad Gita)

 

that's very deep, I like that...

 

There's a few possibilities here. The first is that these people racked up bad karma in previous lives and are paying for it now. Kind of a cold theory, but possible.

The second is that these people are suffering under the hands of those around them, they are innocent victims put there by greedy warlords, presidents, world corporations that don't distribute wealth, only pain.

The third, going with the idea in the second instance, is that karma is only one of many influences. I think in buddhism there are 8 such influences, including weather and a bunch of other stuff, and karma.

But, what difference does it make? I mean, none of us can change the past, and no one can ever say for sure why these people suffer. It sucks to say they deserve it; maybe they do. But they also deserve help, because we all battle karma, we all have pain. The past is over, and while these people may or may not be reaping what they have sown, they are still beautiful human beings who will always have the ability to improve their future and present, to create good karma and live the good life. I hope I'm being clear.

 

Personally, I agree we can't change the past - all we can do is try to act in the right way now. What I'm saying in my previous post is that despite the will of the individual to do good things, there are forces of collective karma that obstruct and limit this.

 

As to your previous post, I don't know if there is collective karma. Just lots of negetive energy, if you will, that perpetrates itself and can spread. But "the united states of america" doesn't have its own karma, because the USA is just an idea, it's the individuals that make it. The only thing we can ever hope to do anything about is our own personal karma, and spread more positive energies into the mix. Be that light unto the world, you know? Hope others see you shine. I think that's why large group meditations are so powerful, because the collective energy is all so positive. These things can have discernable effects, which is why an unconscious society just perpetuates its unconsciousness.

We must also keep in mind that there is more to life than karma. Sometimes, bad shit just happens. Really, stuff happens and we call it bad shit...for example, a hurricane isn't bad in itself, only when it negatively affects human lives do we call it bad. I think it's mostly our perceptions that hurt us, not the things happening. If we see that hurricane for what it is, a natural weather pattern in the tropics, and grew to respect it, not hate or fear it, maybe we wouldn't be so bad off. We might stop building on barrier islands, which are just big sandbars, or stop building on low swampy land. I don't mean to belittle or insult the people who suffer such things (my grandparents live in a mobile home in central Florida, right in the path of this latest one).

 

I hope your grandparents will be ok - saw a report on these storms on tv news earlier, they look bad.
Natural phenomena like storms are a collective karma we all have to face just by being born here.
I'm not sure we're using the same definition of karma - I would say it is karma that has led to the existence of negative energy as you describe it.
As regards collective karma, if a group of people act in concert for certain ends, this is sure to lead to karma for the individuals and the group. I would say that the united states of america does have a very complex set of karmas!
Collective actions lead to results which require a collective response.

 

Well, that's the difference between me and you; I don't see the storm as a bringer of negetive energy. It's just our reactions to an event that is going to be either negetive or positive (or neutral).

And while I see your point about group actions, each person still has their own choice, and thus their own karma. Just because a lot of people choose to act wrongly and thus create bad karma, doesn't mean it's collective karma. It's just people creating their individual karma in a group.

Your last line troubles me, though. I'll have to think on this for a while.

 

what i feel his saying in essance is americas carma
requires muslams hindus budists athiests to react against it

 

What I mean covers huge areas, but an example or two - neuclear waste management - if it causes an environmental disaster in the future, then where is the choice of the individual not to die of radiation sickness? And only through a collective effort extending into the distant future can it be kept safe.
Another one - racial discrimination. Being black means you are in a group that gets negative discrimination, regardless of individual merit and so on.
That to me represents collective karma.
As to what you say about the energy of the storm - it isn't 'bad' in itself, of course, but is from the viewpoint of human society - and it's part and parcel of the collective karma of this whole culture how they'll respond to this or indeed, to anything else.

God Bless.