Sylvan, I don't see how your question to spiralspirit is relevant. Non-Jewish ideas are not kabalah. Gnosticism and Kabalah are two different systems. That merkabah mysticism may have influenced the gnostics or that the gnostics may have influenced the kabalists has nothing to do with kabalah, unless you are studying the History of Jewish mysticism or gnosticism, which seems to be rewritten often enough. In the same way, Roman pagan practices don't have anything to do with modern Christianity. And if a Christian were to speak of Dionysus and how drinking his blood and eating his flesh was part of Christianity, that would be wrong as well. So would saying that in reality modern Christmas is actually Saturnalia, and so all Saturnalian practices are relevant to Christmas. Jewish mysticism is Jewish. Kabalah is the name for Jewish mysticism. If you start talking about Gnosticism or baptisms, and especially if you mention many things out of their Jewish context, then it is no longer kabalah. It dissapoints me that the word itself often loses that connection. Dauer
Dauer, How is this not a relevant question? I see Spinozas' Monad, YWVH, or which ever sacred name you choose to use, as everything. Do you disagree? The Gnostic passage was quoted from the artist, not me, for further insight. It has now been removed. I was offering the poem because it applies to this thread. How is Baptism different from anointing? Just because a word has a semantic charge doesn't mean it invalidates the full dictionary definition. I provided insight prior which has been side-stepped. Should I remove this too... or change it to anointing just because of how it is commonly used? I wouldn't have presented anything in this forum had I felt that I would be stereotyped. I thought this thread would be more open and mystical, not so rational and closed. Why can't essence be shared without everyone becoming so defensive. I meant absolutely no disrespect for your perception. Sophia is the greek word for Wisdom. Here are quotes where Wisdom is mentioned. Proverbs 3:13-26 3:13 Happy are those who find wisdom, and those who get understanding, 3:14 for her income is better than silver, and her revenue better than gold. 3:15 She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. 3:17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; 3:20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. 3:21 My child, do not let these escape from your sight: keep sound wisdom and prudence, 3:22 and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck. 3:23 Then you will walk on your way securely and your foot will not stumble. 3:24 If you sit down, you will not be afraid; when you lie down, your sleep will be sweet. 3:25 Do not be afraid of sudden panic, or of the storm that strikes the wicked; 3:26 for the LORD will be your confidence and will keep your foot from being caught. 4:5-9 4:5 Get wisdom; get insight: do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. 4:6 Do not forsake her, and she will keep you; love her, and she will guard you. 4:7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom, and whatever else you get, get insight. 4:8 Prize her highly, and she will exalt you; she will honor you if you embrace her. 4:9 She will place on your head a fair garland; she will bestow on you a beautiful crown." 7:4-5 7:4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call insight your intimate friend, 7:5 that they may keep you from the loose woman, from the adulteress with her smooth words. 8:1-36 8:1 Does not wisdom call, and does not understanding raise her voice? 8:2 On the heights, beside the way, at the crossroads she takes her stand; 8:3 beside the gates in front of the town, at the entrance of the portals she cries out: 8:4 "To you, O people, I call, and my cry is to all that live. 8:5 O simple ones, learn prudence; acquire intelligence, you who lack it. 8:6 Hear, for I will speak noble things, and from my lips will come what is right; 8:7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips. 8:8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing twisted or crooked in them. 8:9 They are all straight to one who understands and right to those who find knowledge. 8:10 Take my instruction instead of silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold; 8:11 for wisdom is better than jewels, and all that you may desire cannot compare with her. 8:12 I, wisdom, live with prudence, and I attain knowledge and discretion. 8:13 The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate. 8:14 I have good advice and sound wisdom; I have insight, I have strength. 8:15 By me kings reign, and rulers decree what is just; 8:16 by me rulers rule, and nobles, all who govern rightly. 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me. 8:18 Riches and honor are with me, enduring wealth and prosperity. 8:19 My fruit is better than gold, even fine gold, and my yield than choice silver. 8:20 I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, 8:21 endowing with wealth those who love me, and filling their treasuries. 8:22 The LORD created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago. 8:23 Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth. 8:24 When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 8:25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth-- 8:26 when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 8:28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 8:29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 8:30 then I was beside him, like a master worker; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, 8:31 rejoicing in his inhabited world and delighting in the human race. 8:32 And now, my children, listen to me: happy are those who keep my ways. 8:33 Hear instruction and be wise, and do not neglect it. 8:34 Happy is the one who listens to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting beside my doors. 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life and obtains favor from the LORD; 8:36 but those who miss me injure themselves; all who hate me love death." 9:1-6 9:1 Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn her seven pillars. 9:2 She has slaughtered her animals, she has mixed her wine, she has also set her table. 9:3 She has sent out her servant girls, she calls from the highest places in the town, 9:4 "You that are simple, turn in here!" To those without sense she says, 9:5 "Come, eat of my bread and drink of the wine I have mixed. 9:6 Lay aside immaturity, and live, and walk in the way of insight." 24:3-7 24:3 By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; 24:4 by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. 24:5 Wise warriors are mightier than strong ones, and those who have knowledge than those who have strength; 24:6 for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory. 24:7 Wisdom is too high for fools; in the gate they do not open their mouths. Shalom
I see the question as not relevant because you were responding to her statement that, unless you study with Madonna, anything that is not Jewish is not kabalah. And I thought you may have misunderstood her. Baptism is not an annointment in the sense of people being annointed in the bible. Baptism comes specifically from the ritual bath, the mikvah. But it has very different implications because Christian theology gave it extra meaning. In Judaism, it is simply a tool for purification from a state of ritual uncleaness to ritual cleaness. It is difficult, in English, when dealing with words like clean and unclean because it seems like a value judgement. But it isn't. You have to understand that in the Jewish community there are a number of people who are irritated by things like the Kabalah center, and anything that seems like it's drifting away from actual kabalah, watering it down or getting away from what it's actually about, may become annoyed. It was at one time limited to people over 40 who were married, and the source texts themselves are often very dense and difficult to parse. If you are talking about the sefirah, you may wish to say hokhmah instead of sophia. I don't know what your background is, so I don't know if I need to tell you that. I also don't know what sophia means to you so what I have told you may be incorrect. I am still working on my own understanding of HaShem so I cannot answer your question. Although I do feel it is lacking to say He is only everything and nothing more. I cannot go down that road with you currently.
Thank you for your insights and time. You have opened the thread with your personal sharing. I feel your sincerity. This poem sought to explore the energetic mikvah, becoming the burning bush, the purification of dross that comes from devotion. Images of feeling the pillar of flame enveloping one. "3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens" From my interpretation of this, there are two Wisdoms. One that acted, by direction, to create the template of the tree as well as a sefirah on the tree. Personal and Universal.
From a kabbalistic POV, if I am reading this correctly, wisdom is Hokhmah and understanding is binah. That makes sense because they are both below Keter. You may wish to refer to this: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Sefirot/Sefirot.html I don't know what the implications are in that system because I'm not heavily into kabbalah. I'm sure there's a sefer with the answers, or better, a legitimate teacher. There are many books out, and many are poor volumes. I don't remember if it was this thread or another, but on this board somebody posted a link to a place that teaches real kabbalah. I am asking this and please don't take offense. Are you Jewish? If not, why are you interested in kabbalah?
Pardon my delay in responding. You raise a very interesting point. I selected Binah, for this poem, for that was the Sefirot for Mother and is on the side of the path Beth. In Proverbs Wisdom is given the title She. However, you are right... I've checked a number of sources and Hokhmah is the Sefirot for Wisdom... I've taken up way more than my share of this thread. Peace and Blessings. I appricate any feedback that was given and will leave you now. Shalom
Seriously Man, Have You Forgotten To Take Your Medication Today....?? No Less Than 9 New Threads In 2 Hours. Cheers Glen.
That guy with 4 arms looks like Shiva , from Hindu tradition . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiva http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah
I dont see it as all faiths are one . Its more that we are all part of one consciouness . Many faiths have simular beliefs systems . You might check out this forum . http://www.interfaith.org/forum/
There is the Jewish tradiction part of the Kabblah and a more new age part to it . https://kabbalah.com/ http://edu.kabbalah.info/home http://www.llewellyn.com/browse_category.php?product_category_id=174
Just as long as you don't forget the purpose of the Tora. God desires to dwell down here, and His mitsvas are the way we help Him come down. Ex 25:8 says: "Make (pl.) Me a Holy Place and I will dwell among you" (pl.) So it's about His desire, not ours. I've read some of the Zohar and it seems that this is the recurring theme. I was turned off to the Zohar and other Kabbalistic writings because of its mystical hyperbole, but not before getting to the essence of what it's trying to do.
type on the essence into google. is a good start if you want to know more about kabbalah,and Jewish Hasidic teachings pm a private message i can give lot's more info about Jewish philosophy and mysticism
