JWH-018 Nightmare

Another gift from bluelight that I wish I had seen before:Uncontrollable Shaking/Twitching/Muscle Spasms on Weed.

I've heard of the panic attacks from weed, but never this. Not even on these forums, never heard of people smoking too much and completely losing control like that, so I assumed it was a reaction unique to the chemical. If this is true then it's probably that my physical symptoms were due to intense drug action and not some other effect on my brain. It makes me feel better to know that now, at least.

I'm sorry but I don't see this situation as analogous to mine. For one, I was lucid enough to make the decision for myself to go, an I did so in the company of a good friend whom I could trust to keep the situation private.

But second, and most important, we know that LSD doesn't kill people, even "bangin" acid. There has been a LOT of testing, some of it secretly by the CIA, with this chemical to look at it and know that it cannot kill you. By that same token, I've been pretty good with opiates because I looked at them and I know that they can kill me. We do not have this knowledge with this JWH, we just don't so, partially fueled by fear, I decided to err on the side of caution.

In hindsight, obviously, it doesn't look like I was in as much danger as I thought then or initially thought after. That's a good thing, and I'd rather feel stupid about making a dumb mistake than have some sort of real damage. I've learned, and hopefully my mistake can help other people.

 

I freaked out on DPT. I was for sure I was dying. I guess the only thing that stopped me from telling someone was that I knew before hand I could have a bad trip. (or was it I'd rather die than pay the military consequences?)

I also knew that the dose I took could NOT kill me. Before trying a drug the first time, you need to be prepared for a bad trip. Wether that is an opiate, benzo, acid, or DPT.

You most def had a bad trip. I know its not a real 'trip', but it was for you...

I don't think we should be hostile towards him either. Thats fucked up! I think we should comfort him and tell him how to handle the next bad trip. Thats what you guys did with me!

Last time I checked, using drugs is not illegal. Only possession and distribution etc.. What happens on cops when a junkie swallows his stash? They have to leave him alone. Plus the fact this compound does not fall under the analogue act makes it even less worrisome. He didn't hurt the RC scene. He didn't help it either though.

OPer, just remember that stuff like this can happen and to just lay down and calm down. Even if you can't calm down, just chill. EXPECT this type of stuff to happen every now and then, and don't leave the scene because you got scared. It was a lesson well deserved. As far as I am concerned you did pretty much everything right. Excluding the trip sitter part, which I recommend, but who really uses a trip sitter??? I mean, really? I promise that you have learned a great deal from this. Now you will be able to handle a bad trip 10^99 times better.

Isn't it wonderful to be alive? It really is isn't it? I know I had a feeling of wonder after it was over. My bad trip was one of the most important.

I just can't wait until pr0ne has a bad trip. His will be intense and much needed in my eyes. I love you tho pr0ne!

 

Thanks man, this was definitely an experience to learn from. I think, for one, I'll be trying to get my hands on some benzos just to have on hand. Lots of people on lots of forums have talked about how great they are for stopping a bad drug reaction (I just won't mix them with opis).

I also definitely don't think that I'll be messing around with cannabis or any compounds like it in the future. I know it sounds like a "scared puppy" reaction, but to be honest I don't think it's for me. I've heard from a lot of people that the confusion, the memory issues, etc, are just part of the game, and I can't imagine that being enjoyable even at a low level. My typical drugs of choice, opiates and dissociatives, give me a calm, clear head, that's part of what I like about them.

I've definitely had bad trips before, I've felt like I might have ODed on oxycodone before, but I was able to keep myself together to ride it out. There were so many unknown new factors this time that shit just got out of control.

Tossed the JWH-018 and the CP 47,947. Kept the methylone for another day. Maybe. If I'm feeling spunky in a while, but for now I'm taking a break.

 

I told him to just toss it. If he kept it then that's on him, but I've broken no laws so it wasn't an issue. The chemical is already in the poison control database anyway so...

Also, I just remembered this thread that I started about the other cannibanoid I bought: http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=361380

You guys can notice the doses spoken of there. That (and several other sources) is what made me think of 5mg as a conservative dose.

 

cannaboids are a very dangeous drug i my opinion, I quit smoking weed after it put me in the psych wrd for 3 dys thinking the gvt was watching me, car, bugged, wife a dea agent, etc. No problems with psychedelics.

 

As for the muscle spasms with marijuana, I've experienced this and it isn't nearly as intense as what you've described. The 'spasms' usually consisted in a knee-jerk reaction type of movement, nothing that would be associated with cerebral paulsy-esque behavior.

 

Well, maybe it's just a matter of degree?

To put it into perspective, my muscles are still a bit sore from how strong they were clenching and spazzing out.

 

Softball, I'm with ya lol

I think that it was stupid to have taken a high dose like that, but it's good to see you're okay.

Fuck all you guys talking shit on him - with any chem being experimented with, there will be some negative effects, you guys seem to hate on him cause he made the best judgment at the time to have gone to the hospital - which WAS his best judgment. It is better safe than sorry.

And really, if you're afraid of JWH being scheduled, you guys need to just smoke some pot and get the fuck over it...I'd rather smoke real weed anyways....

OP: Keep on keepin on with the experimentation if you feel up for it Keep writing reports too, this was a good one. For all this naysaying that you are getting, you are actually doing good in documenting ALL the effects of this substance. You have already made an impact on at least one future user to play it safe.

 

.......

 

I cant wait either. I have been waiting for 5 years. I really dont think thats going to happen though.

 

Thanks again guys. It will be a while before I try another RC but the option is still out there for me.

I think the jury is still out on this, really. I mean, it was obviously a high dose for me, and definitely stupid for me to have gone to that dose that quickly. But is 5mg really that high of a dose?

I've seen dosing info all over the place, really, up to 18mg oral. More than 3X what I took! I can't imagine!

I'm trying to think back, and see if there were any other contributing factors other than my lack of pot experience. The only other drug I had ingested that day is the caffeine in oolong tea. I had tried to make some chamomile tea once things were going south in hopes of calming down, but I never had more than a sip.

Erowid is great, but they are slow as shit to add new chems, links to new chems, etc. to help build a dosing chart. Maybe there needs to be some sort of RC wiki/database with all this stuff. Contributors could just go and submit doses they took, rate the quality of experience, and mods (or an automated program) could calculate dosage based on that?

One other factor I just thought of, just throwing it out there as info: during other experiences when things went bad, I would turn out my lights, turn on some chill music, and relax, it usually helps. This time, turning out the lights and laying down made things much worse. I don't think it was a coincidence either. When I got home from the hospital and was feeling much better, I was fine talking with my roomies and such. However, once I went to bed and turned out my lights ("TV" was on), I started to fade back into the bad effects of the drugs. Since the drug had mostly run it's course I was able to talk myself calm again, but the lights out definitely triggered the worst of it. I noticed the slight touches of the effect the next night as well, nothing last night, so it's fading.

 

Sorry if this was already asked. i read through this, but pretty quickly and i don't remember it being asked, but are you on any meds?

 

Dont' think it's been asked or addressed yet, but no. I did have a moderately low dose of kratom a few days before, not sure if that would effect anything.

Other than that, nothing.

 

Hi Softball, and all.

Found your post through google. Yesterday I a very similar situation. I too have experienced with many drugs. I tried K2 (jwh-018) and just like you described. Extreme body tingling, rapid heart, could not tell if I was breathing.

It was very much like a dissociative. I was struggling so hard to keep my thoughts in order. I felt like I was going to die, and I very well may have. My blood pressure reading was 160/110 with a rapid heart beat.

Eventually it subsided, but I was like that for a solid 2 hours. I took a Xanax when I noticed it was getting bad, but it didn't do anything.

I just want everyone to be aware that this may act like cannabinoid for most people, but realize that this is NOT cannabinoid. I felt exactly like Softball; I'd much rather die on opiates or uppers than something like this. Those drugs are rather well documented, tested, and known about. I thought the K2/jwh-018 would be really safe since it was legal and like weed, but it was a STUPID move. I will use drugs again, but never something like this.

 

Actually I would just like to add that this "life-threatening-effect" had happened to me too, but I decided to engage the experience for better or worst and not resist (so no hospital trips lol). It was characterized by rapid skipping heart-beats, forced yet very restricted breathing (breaths felt VERY shallow and incomplete), numb fingers and toes. I had thought many times during the experience that I was going to die, or that it was at least possible due to the research-like nature of the drug. The overall distress prolonged for 2 hours (the duration of JWH-018), and then subsided.

Also, from the first post man, .. Somebody asked OP if his scale was accurate, and he said he calibrated it with a 10 gram weight. Well.. a 10 gram weight isn't much for calibration when you're measuring a 5mg dose. You need something much lighter to calibrate with...


To sum all of this UP:

CALIBRATE YOUR SCALE WITH A 5MG WEIGHT.
AND DON'T GO BIG ON JWH YOUR FIRST TIME! I thought I could do it, and I almost had what felt like a nearing heart attack.

 

had a similar incident with 5mg perfectly weighed out and vaped. the fear was pretty intense. i can totally understand how you felt. it seriously felt like my brain was melting. it was not like being really stoned or anything like that. you get that feeling like "holy fuck what have i done to my brain!!". but like similar fear/panic incidents with other substances i have taken, i just remember what i took and how much and it eased my mind a bit. but still this substance is just a little odd sometimes.

 

I smoked a whole bag of spice gold in a day and felt nothing like this...have experienced panic attacks with marijuana though.

 

i got mega baked a few nights ago smoking bump after bump, i was constantly twitching for about an hour. that same night a bit later i coincidentally came down with the flu and i puked 4 times cause of it... i'm positive that the two events were not related.

 

My roommate (lets call her Ann) and I, ordered 1 gram of 99.7 percent pure jwh-018 from an online source based in the U.S. It was white/crystal/glitter-like powder.

We both are regular marijuana and spice smokers. We smoke at least 3-4 days a week, but usually a lot more. Spice blends we have tried include: Spice Gold, Serenity Now, Puff, Mojo, Pep, Spike 99, Blaze, LA Purp, etc. (We have smoked large amounts of marijuana and/or these blends at one time and have had absolutely no problems)

Other drugs we have experience with include: mdma, lsd, mushrooms, cocaine, painkillers (oxys, lortabs, vicodin, etc.), barbiturates (xanax, klonopin), and dxm.

FIRST NIGHT WITH JWH-018
Anyway, the first night we tried the JWH-018, everything seemed normal. We smoked it with 2 other people and each took about 3-4 hits (approximately 2-4mg per person) from a meth pipe. After this we all felt extremely stoned like we just smoked some KB. After about 30 minutes, one of the other people offered to pack a bowl of some bud in the bong and we decided to sprinkle a tiny amount (about 2 mgs) on top of the bowl. My roommate Ann said she was too stoned to keep smoking so the 3 of us finished the bowl.

30-45 minutes later it was time for Ann and I to drive back to our house but we were both a little scared to drive. (usually i'm fine driving high on bud or spice) I eventually decided to drive and ended up doing a good job despite some paranoia.

When we got home, Ann lied down and soon fell asleep, while I took 4-5 more hits. I was very very high and tired. I went to sleep. Everything was fine.

SECOND NIGHT (LAST NIGHT) WITH JWH-018
When I woke up i took 3-4 hits and Ann took 2 hits out of the meth pipe (there was still some liquid left from the night before) and we got pretty baked. We packed all of our stuff and drove about an hour away from our university to go back to our hometown to visit some friends.

Around 5:30 pm we meet up with our friend (lets call him Jack). Jack is on probation and has to pass drug tests for court, so I was excited to smoke the jwh-018 with him. Jack usually smokes Pep as a marijuana substitute and was also excited about the chemical.

We all took about 4-5 hits from the meth pipe again and just hung out for awhile. Everyone felt normally/comfortably high. We smoke again in the next hour or two and Ann feels a little paranoid about driving around so we decide to go to the movies. We get out of the movie at 10pm. Jack goes home and Anne and I go to another friends house (lets call her Sue).

At 11:45 Anne, Sue, and me all smoke about 5mg from the meth pipe.

At about 12:15am Ann isn't feeling very well. She starts panicking and feels something is very wrong. I try to calm her down and reassure her that everything is fine but she seems extremely scared. We go in another room so she can lay down and i bring her some water.

She starts shaking and says her arms and legs are tingling. She says she has lost feeling in her arm/legs. She then vomits on the floor. She keeps vomiting. She is crying at this point. Then Ann tells me she has just urinated on herself and I run downstairs to inform Sue. We come back up to help Ann. We try to get her to drink some water but she can only drink a little bit. We ask Ann if she wants to go to the hospital but she is not sure if she wants to go yet. (she is under her parents insurance and they were in the process of switching coverage from dad's insurance because he quit his job to mom's insurance...so basically she would have been uninsured)

Ann then becomes completely disoriented, forgetting where she is, and literally who she is. She couldn't remember her name, what she looked like, etc. She is very upset/scared (still shaking). She vomits again. We keep trying to give her water. Finally we convince Ann its time to go to the hospital.

We walk downstairs to the car and Ann says to wait because she might be feeling better, but as soon as she sits down she feels very weak again.
So we get in the car and drive to the emergency room.

We get out of the car and start walking through the parking lot and Ann claims to be feeling better again. (Maybe a correlation between standing/walking that was making her feel better?) So again we stop and decide if we really want to go inside.

We end up going inside, but Ann still doesn't want to check in yet. So we sit in the waiting room trying to see if she will feel better or not. After about 5-10 minutes she decides she IS feeling better and wants to go back home. We get back around 2:30 (there was a lot of sitting/waiting in the car before Ann was ready to move from place to place) Ann lies down drinks some water and tries to rest. I lay next to her to stay up and make sure she's ok.

She eventually falls asleep and wakes up the next morning feeling fine (maybe a little weak from all the throwing up and slight headache and grogginess but nothing major)



CAN ANYONE TELL ME WTF??????
Was this an overdose?
Was she having a seizure?
What is the deal??