Who are these "ignorants" who will flee to Iraq? The Arabs in the countries that border Iraq are oil-rich fat cats whose typical job is to sit on their ass at a desk, eat dates, and sip strong-ass coffee. The Arabs in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Jordan have it too good to be tempted by "the wealth and freedom" of an Iraqi democracy. They're more than happy to support their kings and stay rich. The rest hate us too much. Remember the Shah? Corrupt as he was, he also was a proponent of Western modernization in Iran. The Iranis still hated him (although he was a tool of the West) and hated the Westernization, and supported the Islamist revolution in defiance. I doubt this mindset has changed too much. A government constructed by us in Iraq will probably never receive de facto recognition in the Gulf states, and Iraq will serve as another target for terrorists to rattle their sabers at and snarl about the devices of the Great Satan. And really, whatever mandate we have to be in Iraq is very flimsy. But that is what the religious right wants - the reinstatement/perpetuation of religion-driven laws in the US. You cannot legislate morality, though it's often tried. Let people believe and practice as they will. But how do you measure what's "rewarding to society," in any objective sense? I thought Family Guy was greatly rewarding, one of my favorite shows ever. But enough parental groups and other killjoys didn't seem to think so, and whined enough to get Fox to buckle down and can the show (and of course, Fox just fills the space with another reality show). The "rewarding" nature of a television program is to a large extent a subjective issue. The lack of morality and such that you perceive in today's TV programming is based on your own set of morals, which others may not share. Personally I hate reality shows and MTV (although Viva la Bam is amusing), on top of a long list of TV programs I think that suck. But those are my own views, and I think if people wanna watch it let them. If I don't like the show I don't watch it. People blame too much on the boob tube. Smoking, homosexuality (again, this is subjective on whether this is bad, if that was your indication), violence, whatever... they've existed long before television.
America was based on religious values. Laws are based on the same values. TV I was stationed in Korea in the late 60’s and worked with a Korean soldier. We were privates together. On our mail pick up detail we stopped at a Korean theater and the lights kept coming on and a guy would come on the stage and talk. I asked what the hell was going on? The Korean soldier told me the guy was telling them to laugh or be sad or be happy like the background of shows in the states. They had to program the brainwashing into the people. I haven’t watched TV the same ever since. The news with body language and voice tones and programs with background agreement or disagreement moans and groans and laughter and ohs and ahas I can never watch. I’ve never seen Fraiser or any reality show. I watch movies. I see the agenda results on the news with the homosexual movement, but I’ve never seen Ophra or any of the shows with agreement or disagreement in the background sounds. I have 300+ channels and never watch brainwashing network programming. I hear people on the news talking about them by first name and I haven’t a clue. It is brainwashing! Just like Father Knows Best in the 50’s. I was taught to smoke by TV and kids now are taught to consider being a homosexual by TV. Brainwashing! I hope you are wrong about Iraq. I would like to see the region in peace and prosperity. Changeyourlatitude
John Kerry is part of the same evil agenda as Bush. I think Kerry would make for a terrible president. Whether Bush or Kerry is elected makes no diference to me, because they both represent what I hate about the way the US government is run.
I challenge others to look up facts for themselves and read between the lines instead of chanting 'prove it!'. There are some people who are historically inept about Saddam's long ties with the U.S. The CIA was supporting Saddam as far back as the late 50s. His Baath party had an anti-communist tone that served the U.S. well during the cold war. Saddam served half a year in prison for killing his brother-in-law in 1958 who was a communist. The U.S. involvement with him certainly helped him to gain power during the 60s and 70s. Saddam served the U.S. even better in the 80s as a means of retaliating against Iran. I can't prove everything to you regarding national security issues like these. Most of the detailed facts will never be known since they will always be kept classified (much like Bush's national guard records). As an example, I've only been able to find three U.S. national security directives regarding Saddam, and they were partially blacked out. Most of the info comes from former CIA and state department officials, former heads of state, and former officials of Saddam. People used to deny that the U.S. supplied Saddam with anthrax, botulism, and west nile virus until a Congressional committee accidentally came across the records while investigating the House Bank. Other information about the U.S. military support for Saddam came when one of the American contractors involved in the arming of Saddam filed a law suit and records were forced to made public. Without luck and a civil trial, we wouldn't have been able to prove these facts. And there's the famous photo of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam when Rummy was the special envoy to Saddam during the Reagan era. Rummy claims he was meeting with Saddam to 'discuss Israel'. Some people still think the photo is a fake. Some deny that the U.S. installed the Shah of Iran, although the more perceptive realize that this was the case. Others couldn't believe that the U.S. was secretly arming Iran at the same time it was arming Saddam until that information was leaked to the Congress. Others deny that Manuel Noriega was installed by the U.S., though most know better. (some deny that G.W. Bush was installed by the RNC, although most know that someone like him would have never stood a chance at becoming president if it hadn't been for the RNC pre-selecting and installing him. And no, we can't prove this either because of the private activities that go on in the RNC and DNC by unelected officials) One can say that the U.S. supported Saddam for decades and surely did nothing to stop him from coming to power or to remove him from power up until 1990. The U.S. even vetoed the U.N. resolution in 1988 condemning Saddam for using chemical weapons. Much the same can be said of the U.S. support and arming of bin Laden and other groups like his. An interview with one of the former officials of Saddam. It gives a good overview of the politics during the Saddam era. It was posted on PBS, but you certainly wouldn't find it on Fox News. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/interviews/aburish.html
Lucifer The Catholic church agrees, Kerry has no morals to void his church mandate. You didn't respond to my last entry which I gave a little thought. Gay marriage starts on Monday in MA. Still think the media can just be turned off? There is a new reality show on $'s for "can you sell you are gay?" Society is busted! FCC needs to just shut the crap down. My nephew is gay and I'm not against gays. It just isn't right for the major networks to brainwash the public like they did in the 50's and 60's to make smoking popular. Why the agenda? We need someone stronger on the issue than Aschorft! Changeyourlatitude
Uh, sorry I missed something... explain, what exactly did the Catholic church say? How is society exactly "busted?" This by the way has been the cry of social critics since the times of the ancient Greeks... in almost any society in history you can probably find the writings of people who think society is goin' down the tubes. Your conclusion that society is busted is based on your own mores, and it only applies to you. What do I think of today's society? Eh, I think alot of it sucks, but that's just my opinion, and I don't blame television itself as the main culprit. If you don't have a problem with gays, why does this and the development in MA bother you? I think this is not so much brainwashing as simply today's society being more tolerant/open-minded (at least in that sense). The way you use the term "brainwash," I think it can be applied to just about anything. Weren't we "brainwashed" back in the day to think that only certain sexual orientations are okay? Or if you go far back enough, sex in general was usually something to be shunned. At any rate, I really don't think the television is that mesmerizing a medium, though I will not deny it influences us. I admit I think smoking can look cool, there are scenes in tv shows and movies alike where say, someone just lights up a cig pensively, and it can look cool... maybe there's your "brainwashing" element. But I never actually picked up the habit, I hate cigarettes in reality. I can tell the difference between TV and real life. Many things on TV I see purely as entertainment, potato chips for the eyes, and not much more. So I don't think the FCC should beef itself up at all, in fact I am in favor of even less censorship on television. I believe it is ultimately up to the individual as to how much television affects his/her life. And should Ashcroft or some other moralistic hardass manage to control what appears on TV, couldn't what they *do* allow on TV be "brainwashing," in the liberal sense of the word as you use it. Wouldn't we be "brainwashed," assuming humans are really that sponge-brained, to mold our preferences to what the morality police wants? As I said before, morals are, to a large extent, a rather subjective matter, and everyone does not have the same set of morals. So I don't think it's fair to let one group dictate what the rest of us can see. Again, just don't watch it if it offends you. Out of sight, out of mind. How others may be influenced by television is their own business.
The Catholic Church said if political figures support a vice against the basic values of the church he or she should not receive communion. Society is busted! Exactly correct on your response, you are smart! It is all according to what the meaning of the word “busted” is! I don’t think “Father Knows Best” was any less brainwashing than Emin and Emin (SP) or other gangster rap which calls for abuse of women or race or other anti social activities. One is G rated and the other is R rated. For society not to follow any rules of standards one must say its OK to do away with alcohol, cigarette and drug age restrictions to youth. So why shouldn’t people be at least old enough to interpret the crap put out by media, which is counter to a productive society? Or is it just fine that in almost all liberal states it’s common for 12 and 13 year old kids to have oral sex parties because of something seen in the media. No responsibility for actions be it M & M or WWF with a barb wire baseball bat nicknamed Barbie that promotes a kids event to see a mans head smashed in. My kid wanted to see the guy get hit with the bat with barbed wire on it. Everyone is sold it’s all right to steal from the rich and give to the poor even if the rich aren’t tyrants? What’s that about? Others say the rich should be able to keep the spoils of slave earners from foreign lands. People go bankrupt after buying tons of slaves produced crap and then are offered credit cards. Society is broke! Grasshoppers stealing from ants and feeling no shame. Nothing has to be wrong if it’s on TV or the radio. It’s broke! The hidden messages in the background laughter, oh’s and ah’s over a lifetime is not potato chips for the eyes. It is programming and a type of programming a whole nation buys into. You don’t notice it if you hear it every day. When I watch a movie or the news the change is shocking because I don’t listen to the brainwashing! You can’t be shocked about anything. There is nothing wrong with being homosexual. I just point it out because Hollywood has made it a replacement for cigarettes. Why not glorify education or environment or alternative energy, make it cool to screw over big electric companies with solar, wind or water? Such an agenda would serve a purpose good for society. Gays will be just fine without all the Oh’s and Ah’s and society would be a lot better off if the country was cleaner, smarter and free from big oil. That is why I ask “why the gay agenda?” You have a blank hard drive when born. All you are comes from the environment around you. Koreans had to be taught to understand Oh’s and Ah’s and when to laugh with laughter in the background because they weren’t born with it in their environment. They had to be force fed the idea at middle age and there was head scratching. It is kind of like Republicans only watching Fox and Democrats only watching CNN or CBS. It hurts to be out of your brainwashing arena! Kind of like me giving you a different oppinion. Get it? Changeyourlatitude
I really wish Kerry was not the democratic candidate, he seems so fake and untrustworthy. But I detest Bush and cannot imagine another 4 yrs. of this. It seriously makes me sick to think of it, makes me want to cry. What a frustrating situation, to have to vote for someone you don't really want just so someone else doesn't get elected. I voted for Nader last pres. election, but I'm pissed at the others who did and helped elect Dubya. maaaann...this sucks.
Eh well, let the Catholic Church rattle its little crozier I hope Kerry does follow JFK's lead in this respect - he doesn't have to care what the world's most anachronistic institution says. *shrug* I question the effectiveness of the laws we have in place today to govern those restrictions. We have the world's highest drinking age, and yet we apparently have one of the biggest problems with alcohol abuse. Europe has much more lax laws on alcohol and other drugs, and they haven't descended into decay and destruction. I've been to China a few times, and they don't even *have* a set drinking age. So long as you're not plainly pre-pubescent they'll serve ya a beer. And they don't have a big drinking problem. Our problem in America won't be solved with more prohibitive laws, rather with a reexamination of the stigma of alcohol in our culture. Dammit, where was all that good fun when I was in middle school? Seriously though, I haven't heard of rampant pre-teen sex parties being a commonality. Hey, as long as they know what they're doing I guess. At any rate I would put more blame on the parents than on the media for any problems that may have arisen from that stuff. I dunno, when I was a kid, I had a steady diet of my beloved Wile E. Coyote cartoons, and played violent video games. I even still enjoy gore and violence and all that stuff as entertainment on television and in film. But inversely I've always been anti-violence and anti-war in real life. To me, the difference between the two was plain - one's fake and one isn't. Again, I don't blame the media much for *causing* violence, although it does glamorize it. I guess we just need to make that distinction clear to more kids. I won't argue much with that. But, sentiments like that have been going on long before the advent of television. After all, the tales of Robin Hood are what, 900 years old? Well, they've tried that with Captain Planet ~ he's our hero/gonna take pollution down to zero! ~ a well-meant effort at least. Hell, I'm more or less an environmentalist myself, but I can't see how you can exactly glamorize say, a wind turbine the same way you can a cigarette. Cigarettes are a personal habit, it's a different thing. What are these "Oh's" and "Ah's"? No argument. Well, I don't think censorship is the best help for this, eventually people are going to be exposed to the stuff they've been sheltered from. I mean, look at how we're all horrified by a closer look at the Iraq war. Yeah I understand that. I actually watch Fox and CNN along with MSNBC (the last one is my preferred one). All three annoy me with their high-sounding rhetoric at times, in particular Fox, which I think can be argued is the most full of it. My head hurts every time they shove "Fair & Balanced" in my face. All the major news networks are afflicted with symptoms of what good ol' Tom Wolfe (my favorite journalist/writer) identified in The Right Stuff as the "Great Victorian Gent": "It was as if the press in America, for all its vaunted independence, were a great colonial animal, an animal made up of countless clustered organisms responding to a central nervous system. In the late 1950's (as in the late 1970's) the animal seemed determined that in all matters of national importance the proper emotion, the seemly sentiment, the fitting moral tone, should be established and should prevail; and all information that muddied the tone and weakened the feeling should simply be thrown down the memory hole. In a later period this impulse of the animal would take the form of blazing indignation about corruption, abuses of power, and even minor ethical lapses, among public officials; here, in April of 1959, it took the form of a blazing patriotic passion for the seven test pilots who had volunteered to go into space. In either case, the animal's fundamental concern remained the same: the public, the populace, the citizenry, must be provided with the correct feelings! One might regard this animal as the consummate hypocritical Victorian gent. Sentiments that one scarcely gives a second thought to in one's private life are nevertheless insisted upon in all public utterances. (And this grave gent lives on in excellent health.)" [100-101]
That's fine if he doesn't care, but if you are going to go against major church teachings, then DON'T be Catholic, its that simple. He is only using his so called "Catholicism" to gain votes, its pathetic. It be different if it was only one issue, but its not. If your going to say you follow the Church of Rome, then you cannot blatenly go against major church teachings. That is called Hypocrisy. JFK also did not publicly come out and defy major church teachings either, none that I am aware of anyway.
The environmental impact of a hydrogen car depends on how one obtains the fuel. Most of the hydrogen today comes from reforming fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas which have lots of hydrogen. The reforming process puts out CO and CO2 as waste products, which is just as bad as running an internal combustion engine. Bush and the oil companies will gain from an h-car if it runs off of reformed fossil fuels. What's needed is research in renewable hydrogen sources, such as obtaining hydrogen from water using solar, hydro, or fusion power. That's something that goes against the interests of the oil companies that are currently occupying the white house.
I don't know if Kerry's Catholicism is really that great a boon to him vote-wise... it was considered a setback for JFK, as there were fears he would defer to papal authority and such. I don't know what JFK's stance was on gay marriages... I do know he supported birth control research and legislation, which was about as big a controversy in Catholicism at the time as gay marriage is today. As JFK put it, he believed that while he was opposed to birth control as a member of his church, he did not wish to impose his view on others. And I think that's to his credit, and Kerry should have the same attitude towards gay marriage.
Lucifer “Eh well, let the Catholic Church rattle its little crozier I hope Kerry does follow JFK's lead in this respect - he doesn't have to care what the world's most anachronistic institution says.” I agree with you but they are also telling voters the same if they vote for him. Now how they would find out how someone votes I have no idea. I disagree with abortion rights along with the Catholic Church. I agree the church should not involve itself with politics. I think church values belong in the government. Our laws were based on the basic “right and wrong” of the church. The government in Europe supports a particular church and required citizens to pay tax to the church. Therefore the separation of church from government, which isn’t written that so many talking heads, speaks of. I agree to disagree. “Europe has much more lax laws on alcohol and other drugs, and they haven't descended into decay and destruction.” I envy your travel! I know alcohol and drugs are a problem in Europe. They are all over the world. Damn, I abuse the stuff myself! There are Baud’s, “government health center retreats”, all over Germany for Germans to dry out in. German’s drink a lot and the majority of the men and a large portion of women also. In Holland the relaxing of drug laws has left the society collapsing. Did you know more Americans soldiers and college Spring Breakers than will die drowning on beer vomit than in the war at any given point? After field training exercises young soldiers binge as college students do and many pass out on their backs and just die! Germany and Holland are the only European countries I’ve spent time in enough to evaluate. The French people, when I visited Paris a couple times seemed satisfied to have a few glasses of wine. In Korea the men can’t hold alcohol and often get stoned on a few beers. The women keep them in close reign and usually drag them home by the ear. Alcohol was taboo in my home as I grew up and I found ways to check out the taboo. I have taken the mystery out of it with my children. “Dammit, where was all that good fun when I was in middle school?” There was this girl up in the mountains of WV that would say, don’t………stop……don’t….stop..don’t stop, don’t stop! I’ll tell my father…further, further, further! I just think if the mystery is taken out of sex and the personal love connection we will end up like Germans. I was on a swimming lawn area sunbathing looking at the German girls and this playmate of the month comes in and parks her towel in front of me. Wearing jeans and long sleeves. After neatly placing her towel she took off all of her clothes neatly folded them and placed them in her bag and then put on her bikini. I had to roll over! The German guys didn’t even look! I guess we just agree to disagree on the WWF and M & M. I guess I think it is different because so many kids’ parents leave them on their own at younger and younger ages to work two jobs and no one keeps up with how kids think at the dinner table. “Hell, I'm more or less an environmentalist myself, but I can't see how you can exactly glamorize say…” I guess glamorizing lifestyles of using less and giving back more than you take. From stereotyping farmers who sell cheap farm crops on the backs of slave labor and encourage organic produce. Stigmatize factory farms for what they are and promote a small family farm life and product free of injected and jail treated animals. It could be done in normal programs people watch every day. Factory farms could become as unpopular as slavery. “What are these "Oh's" and "Ah's"?” "Oh's" and "Ah's are the background sounds in network programming. The hidden audience that tells you how to interpret a certain act, like two girls kissing or two boys kissing. The laughter or "Oh's" and "Ah's"?” that tells you you’re fucked up if you didn’t take this, this way. You watch the different news channels as I do. On the news it’s the body language or selection of words or cutoffs of speakers. I’m not saying censorship precisely. I’m saying present prime time like your minister or a responsible mature adult with the best concerns of how a child might screw up his future by not knowing how to act in public in business and overseas travel. Let a child be a child and then let adults be adults. I allow my kids to watch adult shows or shows with explicit scenes in them but we talk. It’s when parents just baby-sit the kids with TV and work where kids lose out. Your news assessment was great! After WWII and Korea war with the Cold War going strong distinct images was the rule. Maps with flowing red dominance to indicate the bad guys. With 24-hour news you either have to watch all channels or watch late night comedy to get it. The news networks are just selling stuff, did you know it’s not your fault you are overweight, and an agenda. The Internet news and newspapers help also. Changeyourlatitude
I'm voting for him just to get Bush out of the White House. I'm going to turn 18 on October 7th, just in time for the ellection! I'm so excited!
hip-ster I’m into alternative energy but really didn’t know much about how the fuel would be produced. I did a little research and the picture isn’t all that gloomy. At least if you read the first site and work down to the last one. I think this government money is well spent! Government sources: http://avt.inel.gov/hydrogen.html Freedom car http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/ Fuels http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/technologies/fuels/index.shtml The oil giants will of course want a large piece of the pie but in the fuels link above it shows room for competition! feministhippy You have no idea in the world how happy I would be if I were turning 18 soon! Love back at you! Changeyourlatitude
Heh sorry I've kinda been in too different a state of mind for the past night or so to put together a real long response again... head felt like I've had a bowling ball strapped to it... so now back to talking about alcohol and drug abuse and all that good stuff Oh and on the catholic church Well, I think those church values that belong in government are ones that are logical from a non-religious standpoint as well. Also what's "right and wrong" changes over time, church-based or not.. I mean, for example in the antebellum South religion did not rule out slavery. Throughout history the Bible's been interpreted in infinitely different ways to endorse all sorts of viewpoints. What is the particular church(es) supported in Europe? I haven't been to Europe but they always struck me as less God-fearing as America is. Personally I always thought the "Dutch experiment" wasn't a bad idea, separating the "soft" drugs from the "hard," so they could focus on drugs that are actually fairly dangerous. At any rate, I think that we can see easily enough from the Prohibition 20's and from the prohibition of drugs nowadays, especially pot, that prohibition is not a very effective policy. It sure isn't working here in the US, and we waste so much money on it. So regarding legality I think we could take some tips from Europe. The problem of addictions and abuse are ultimately something based on culture (look at the Irish) and law itself isn't strong enough to change the culture... it only drives it underground, where the black market thrives on it. That's because nudity doesn't carry the stigma of sexuality in Europe as strongly as it does in the US, and actually I think that's fine. I think we Americans tend to be too prudish, in spite of the sexual revolution and all that. Sex and nudity needn't be so closely connotative of each other. Have German values of sex and love suffered because they dissociate casual nudity from sex? Interesting idea... I'm no fan of agro-biz, even though that opinion is mostly based on Robert Crumb comics. I see... don't have much to debate. I dunno how big a difference they make however. For example, I never found the Flintstones a funny show, and I just found it funny that they sometimes added canned laughter... didn't make me laugh at their jokes, so much as how odd it seemed to me to hear laughter paired with bad jokes. Don't think these techniques work on anyone with half a brain. True enough, stooges like Bill O'Reilly like to make their points simply by being louder. Purely objective journalism however is practically impossible. Point taken, I mostly agree. Though some parents just would rather shut off the TV and completely avoid speaking about taboo subjects (my mom was like that, even when I was like 15, by then it was just amusing) instead they'll just lobby to set stricter standards on TV, which I think doesn't solve anything. That's what bugs me about mainstream journalism... so dumbed down. Yet it's probably what's going to keep me employed five years down the road.
Fourms and Cuba-Librias don't mix! Lucifer What is the particular church(es) supported in Europe? I haven't been to Europe but they always struck me as less God-fearing as America is. I’m sorry I don’t know which were in competition with the government maybe Showmet or one of the guys from the UK will fill us in. At the time of the pilgrims and leading up to the declaration of independence religious persecution in Europe was a problem. I have a friend for Finland who says the church taxes them like the government here even these days. He didn’t say which one it was. I think you are correct the Europeans are more secular than America. But there are beautiful churches in every town and countryside. The secularism is caused by socialism I feel because it can’t be explained in any church definitions. Personally I always thought the "Dutch experiment" wasn't a bad idea, separating the "soft" drugs from the "hard," so they could focus on drugs that are actually fairly dangerous. So regarding legality I think we could take some tips from Europe. Actually I think most of Europe enforces drugs equal to or more stringently than the US. I know German did when I was last there. Holland or Canada is a better example. I agree tons of money is wasted on marijuana drug war. Marijuana is now Canada’s larges crop, even out does timber in profitability. Have German values of sex and love suffered because they dissociate casual nudity from sex? I don’t know how it is now that the two Germany’s are one. When I lived there most Germans were like programmed ants. Go to school and more school, all employment requires a degree, a hairdresser must train for two years to be certified. Once certified in whatever jobs the government takes over. At age 18 a citizen may borrow 5,000 DM from any bank on signature alone. 99.9% of born Germans enter this system and buy a million dollar house and a new car on graduation from college. Lower wage degrees have less expensive houses but not drastically less expensive, most live in middle class or upper middle class in comparison to America. Only the Turks, their version of Mexican’s live at a lower standard. Once in the program of education, marriage, and debt commitment for lifetime they enjoy life. Little regard is given to children as they cut into lifestyle so the government subsidizes part of the cost of early child life and education. There population was shrinking when I was last there. Changeyourlatitude
Kerry has been a Catholic all his life, so how is that a ploy to get votes? Besides, aren't you aware that there are large numbers of progressive Catholics who want Church reform? Just because they are not conservative doesn't mean they are not Catholic. Do you know about Call to Action and other groups who are pressing for Vatican 111? Just because you may not care for his political stance it is unfair to claim he is a religious hypocrite.
