Joey Vento Is Right, This Is America, Speak English

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Rainbowtoke, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    LOL!

    Oh boy.

    Um, yeah, it may be childish, but it's a person's right. It's also a person's right to judge that other person based on their words and actions. If a person is a bigot, then they should be able to say what they believe and judged accordingly for what they say. Why is it the government's responsibility to tell people what they can and cannot hear? Do you believe the government also has a say in what you can and cannot watch on TV or view on the internet?

    Um, yeah, that's why freedom of speech is being eroded at an alarming rate.

    You see, the reason racism exists the way it does today is because of political correctness and the emphasis by the ever-so-tolerant liberal/socialist/communist ninnies placed on words. If people simply learned to grow up and ignore stupid, ignorant people, racism would be almost non-existent. It's those who make an issue out of it that are the reason why it presists as it does. Talk about childish.
     
  2. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Ignore people? Ignore stupid views?

    Is that your way of tackling the foreseeable wave of despair and hostile world takeover?

    You think we should simply ignore hate and expect it to become non-existent? When has that ever been attempted and actually worked?

    I think the government has a responsibility to care about what we can and cannot watch on TV or the internet, but ultimately, I think the people have a say - and they do in my country.

    Eh, racism does not exist because of political correctness. That's bullshit. BULLSHIT. It exists because we let it continue. That's just absolute bullshit to think it exists because of some form of tolerance and acceptance in our language is changing things in our culture, the very same change that minority races are endorsing and in full support of. You're very wrong, Matthew.

    But back on topic, I don't feel it's right to criminalize the use of words, I feel as though the message and weight in the means being expressed holds some other kind of intangible value that outweighs the 'inherent' right to express whatever a person feels like.

    Also, I have yet to be shown evidence that freedom of speech is eroding at an alarming rate - in the USA especially. I have a vague sense and idea of what's going on, but I cannot think of any real fact or judgement to base this assumption on.

    Is it too late to keep at this???
     
  3. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Hate exists. It always has. You're never going to get rid of it by controlling what people can and cannot say. The best people can do is grow up and ignore those who have nothing intelligent to say. You can't expect the government to solve anything because they always make whatever they involve themselves in worse than it was to begin with. Look at the war on drugs.

    Racism is used by government to create divide and conquer. Yes, I see the government as being the #1 contributor to racism today. They use the race card issue to polarize people and create more racial tension so we are arguing amongst ourselves, blind to the REAL enemy. They use overly emotional and gullible bleeding hearts to do their dirty work, calling for more so-called "hate crime" laws aimed to eviscerating all free speech under the guise of promoting "tolerance." What a joke!


    What do you suggest? Intern all government-deemed bigots?? Sterlize them? Forcibly drug them? Castrate them??

    Yes, the government loves you.

    You cannot force "tolerance" on people. You talk about tolerance, yet you contradict yourself everytime you mention the government's role in mandating this tolerance.

    Ever heard of something called the Patriot Act?? The Military Commissions Act??
     
  4. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    The Patriot Act! Yes, it sounds vaguely familiar! I knew I could get my brain working with a little push.

    Sorry, but I live in a country where my government works and were people have faith in it; legitimate faith in the functions of all branches of government compared to the views of people in your country towards your governments.

    People who harbour hate deserve to have their signs being taken down. I'm not suggesting we castrate them or throw them in jail or make them criminals. Injustice either has to stop, or the people that utilize free speech as a guise to promote hate and aggression deserve to be punished for their own intolerance and disrespect for what's ALSO written in the constitution, that all people are equal.

    I'm not contradicting myself each time that I mention the government's role in mandating tolerance - I think think it's wrong to just let racism take its' own course and not ensure, defend and protect the very same citizens that are a target of systemic and social repression - and thus I support intervention if it's constructive and actually is what the people need to become represented and accepted.

    I fixed my car today, btw Matty. I even removed the battery, cleaned it and the terminals with some sand paper, and hooked it back up. You would be very proud. The damned battery was so heavy, I was afraid I would drop it.
     
  5. gaiabee

    gaiabee Member

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    aristartle... is part of your argument for limiting free speech based on a belief that this will somehow limit hate and racism?
     
  6. Rainbowtoke

    Rainbowtoke Member

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    I dont think this person has a clue what they're talking about. Our Government is broken and has been for a long time. What a moronic way to see things.
     
  7. Paul1968

    Paul1968 Banned

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    For all those you think the US doesn't have the right to make english the official language let me give you these laws.

    If you immigrate to America you MUST speak our native language.
    You MUST be a professional or and investor. No unskilled workers allowed.
    There will be NO special bi-lingual programs in schools, no government business will be conducted in YOUR language.
    Foreigners will NOT have the right to vote or hold political office.
    You are NOT entitled to food stamps or welfare programs.
    If can come here IF you invest 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
    If you buy land you must relinquish individual rights to the property.
    You do NOT have the right to protest or wage any foreign flag.
    If you come here illiegally, you will be imprisioned.

    Now, guess what????
    THOSE are the actual laws of MEXICO!!!!
    Yet Mexicans come here, protest in our streets and DEMAND all sorts of government goodies and "rights"!!!
     
  8. SpreadneckGA

    SpreadneckGA Member

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    In comparision to the 300 million plus LEGAL residents, yes i think it is kind of small.
     
  9. MotherLoveBone

    MotherLoveBone Member

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    Thats cause we are better than Mexico dumbass. We're not a 3rd world Nation, and we're not AS corrupt as they are.

    I have something else for you to think about...how many Americans go south of the border every weekend and solicit prostitutes, bring firearms, drive drunk, and just all around fuck shit up( doing things they would never do in their own country)...How many US businesses exploit Mexican labor?? We do nasty things to their country bro. It is not a one way street.
     
  10. MotherLoveBone

    MotherLoveBone Member

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    I say, if Joey Vento refuses to serve an immigrant worker, then he better do the same damn thing when some rich french tourists come ask for food.
     
  11. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Sure. Part of the reason why I think Free Speech requires some kind of regulation is based on my beliefs that limiting hate, racism and such is a priority.

    Link

    Imagine a public incentive to both educate and employ immigrants. There are other ways to pro-actively resolve the situation of language barriers that exists rather than to put up an offensive sign in the name of Free Speech.

    Intelligent, hard-working and decent individuals who can't read English or speak English are a target for the man who puts up a sign declaring his right to assert that people should be speaking English because of the circumstance that his country predominantly speaks English.

    I understand that it's a strange and foreign concept to accept the fact that there are some people who have problems speaking English in the United States, but that doesn't require a sign be in place to perpetuate the existing barriers between language and people. Nor does it really have any bearings to assert the rights to freedom of expression by engaging a message of language intolerance.

    The public education systems in Canada have provided cost free English education to immigrant employees, whether they have a citizenship or not. It's a real solution, to a real problem - and not just a stupid sign.

    It is my opinion that real solutions to real problems, outweigh a person's right to offend and hate a targeted group of people. That's a concept that may be difficult to understand because it does/may infrige on a person's right to say whatever they want about real problems but by offending people who happen to speak another language, it's a hate message.

    I'm not sure how one can say that 20 million people is a small number compared to 300 million people, even. That's roughly 7% of the total population in the USA that we are talking about - who are for the most part, employed by the very same American citizens.

    It's very sad to think that nearly 7% of America's labour force have no rights, no access to public education, no real access to social security, no job security and protection, no health insurance standard, no regulation and accountability from the same government that allows Americans to employ these people.

    Illegal immigrants in NYC attempted to unionize a major factory (FreshDirect- which is a large and popular company) in the city alongside legal workers when the government got involved and wanted to help unionize, and do you know what happened? The company fired everyone before the employees could have a successful vote in favour and re-hired those who needed their jobs back so badly, they would have to give up their hopes of unionizing and get back to work. You can read about 900 people trying to protect the rights of illegals to work here: Link

    There are underlying reasons why people are up in arms when cases like this sign in a Cheesesteak shop arise, and why people are led to believe that it's a Free Speech and individualist issue to express whatever a person can spew out to defend and protect their Rights to say whatever they want - but I'm telling you, it's just perpetuating a system of oppressing human beings by allowing this type of hate message to continue and fuel the very senseless emotions involved when dealing with a comprehensive immigration policy or language education program that can very easily help to alleviate the very same problems related to the message and intentions behind the speech of the sign, or however other forms it is used.

    People deserve to have a voice of peace and free expression, but those who use their rights to express a negative sentiment towards a targeted minority or group because of their language alone, aren't really a champion of justice or a hero that has helped defend anything of value related to the meaning of what freedoms and rights should ultimately be promoting and encouraging.

    In my opinion, it is more moronic to defend the very broken government and legislation without questioning the very reason why it is broken in the first place or why a concept like Free Speech has to be put above a concept like peace and social justice.

    It requires a different perspective to understand my views perhaps, but at least I have taken the time to explain them in as much detail and clarity that I can in this discussion to promote and engage a new perspective and a level of understanding between differing and conflicting views.
     
  12. Paul1968

    Paul1968 Banned

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    I'm sure they do, and I would hope they get locked up and are prosecuted to the full extent of the law in Mexico. Same way I expect out government to prosecute immigrants coming north to be prosecuted who commit crimes.
    As far as US business expoiting Mexican labor, I'm very much against exports US manufacturing jobs to Mexico. If US companies are exploiting Mexican workers isn't that the responsibility of the Mexican government to protect THEIR citizens in their country?
    All I pointed out were Mexican laws that apply to immigrants coming to their country. Yet the Mexican government demands we not build a fence, and allow all immigrants, legal and illegal who cross the border, to be entitled to all US gov't goodies like, welfare, food stamps, health care, and even social security that they never even paid into!
    Do you think illegals should be entitled to social security benefits even though they never ever paid into it??
     
  13. Paul1968

    Paul1968 Banned

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    He never said that! He said you must speak english! Nothing to do with nationality.
     
  14. Paul1968

    Paul1968 Banned

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  15. Rainbowtoke

    Rainbowtoke Member

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    Motherlovebone is just young and not reading he posts or understanding the issue. The man NEVER refused any person that couldnt speak english rather he or his workers would help the customer order in english. Even so every business has the right to refuse service to to anyone anyhow.
     
  16. Aristartle

    Aristartle Snow Falling on Cedars Lifetime Supporter

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    Umm... the man would give them a sandwich with cheese whiz if he couldn't understand their attempts at English. Instead of trying to communicate with people he'd give them some mixed up sandwich on purpose.

    Kind of sounds like he's in the wrong business.
     
  17. flmkpr

    flmkpr Senior Member

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    you are reaching now! were was it said that hed give sombody a screwd up sandwitch on porpose? why is it his responsability to speak anything outher than english? i would think that it is the responsibility of the costomer to try and comunicate with the store owner not the outherway around! its not my responsability as a store owner to learn all the languages of the world!!! if i go to a nother country its up to me to order my sandwich as best i can if its not right its MY fault! and i beleive he is talking to pepole who REFUSE to even try to speake english! your in canada! how many latinos have you met? and why do you think he does not have the right to ask to be spoken to in his native toung? to deal with a forien language costs him MONEY! when was the last time you were in quebec? its difficult! he never said he refused service! but its up to the visitor to learn how to communicate not the bissness owner!
     
  18. Pressed_Rat

    Pressed_Rat Do you even lift, bruh?

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    Well said, Flmkpr.
     
  19. Paul1968

    Paul1968 Banned

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    flmkpr, wow it is so refreshing to hear logic on this board.
     
  20. MotherLoveBone

    MotherLoveBone Member

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    disguise racism as much as you want but to the astute observer its pretty transparent
     

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