mr mojorisin is on the right track. while the war was against germany... it wasnt the germans that wanted what happened. they supported hitler for other reasons then the supposed final solution. once a man takes office he can do things he wants even if it makes his favor go down...( bush ) the nazis were the people that did the bad things. it could be directly compared to some newspaper articles from outside the US after the bush re-election saying that americans were stupid for re-electing him, not saying that only over a half voted for him... i hate the 'poor- jewish people' argument too, (can i say) most jews who are in palestine are 'foreign'. any that i have met you can ask where they are from and the will say israel and if you ask before that they will tell you somewhere else. where as palestinians will say that they are from palestine.. very bad post sorry
What the fuck are you talking about? you know how many germans supported hitler? yea you can't mash all germans into the nazi catagory, but an assload of germans supported hitler, even though there lives were threatened if they didn't, there were still so many who supported him openly, you still always have a choice, and not supporting that piece of fucking garbage would be a better idea, fuck life, it's only temporary, look what happened as a result because they had noone else to turn to, almost an entire religion is exterminated. Millions of innocent people murdered. that is as evil as it can get.
Most Germans, during WW2, didn't know what was going on in the camps. The U.S. had internment camps and imprisoned many Japanese people and ethnic Germans without committing any crimes. Most U.S. citizens didn't know about these camps. Of course the U.S. ones didn't have zyclon showers or anything but the point is they could have and hardly anyone would have known about it. The same went for Germany, most people there had no idea what was really going on. The SS branch of the Nazi Party was primarily responsible for the war crimes associated with the camps. Which was a relatively small group of people. Also the camps were operated by a division of the SS. Out of 1 million members of the SS, only 50 thousand were brought up on charges after the war. The bigger victoms of WW2 would be the Russian's with an est. 23 million people killed and China - 10 million killed. Let alone that of German concentration camp deaths, the jews were only half of all the people killed.
Lets just throw around, "only fifty thousand people were brought up for charges of murdering innocent people" the bigger victims? the russians were fighting the war, so really they weren't victims like the jews who were killed for no real legitimate reason except for some insane motherfuckers wacked out beliefs. Dude your a fucking idiot, the people of the concentration camps were the victims, millions of innocents killed. how the fuck can u even say they were bigger victims, they suffered more casualties, they were not bigger victims, get your shit straight
The majority of those people in Russia and China were civilians. The Russians did not start the war against Germany and the Chinese did not start the war with Japan. How are civilians bombed and otherwise killed anyless of being a victom. The Japanese did horrific things to the Chinese much worse the Nazi's did to the jews. You should probably read some history rather then attack people based your beliefs rather then facts. What about the other 5-11 million est. non-jews killed in the camps, why does anyone bring that up. What I am saying is that most fo the German people didn't know about it. The Nazi's owned and controlled all the media/newspapers etc. too. The SS was mostly responsible for these crimes not the German people. In fact, people that spoke up or opposed the Nazi's in any way, were sent to the Camps. Hilter wasn't even German, he was born and raised in Austria.
wtf? Russia didnt start the war? HELLO THEY INVADED POLAND WITH HITLER! i am now firmly convinced you do not know what you're talking about.
ya, I feel somewhat sorry for them, but on the other hand Im kinda pissed, although sticking to thier own beliefs is ok, Its sad when you see a kid on television holding an Ak-47 saying "I have to go kill the jews". That kid needs to be going to school and doing kids what do, not killing for thier religion. Im sure none of you have seen what it looks like when someone gets brutaly filled with AK rounds. Kids seeing that and gaining all that trauma wont be mentally healthy in the future, when they think back about what they used to have to do to another race. and worse, another fellow human. Id never ever go down there lol. White boy scared to go there.
One day nobodys gonna give 2 shits about religion, and thats when we'll achiebe peace, kinda makes me wonder if religions where just made for us to argue over.
Stalin = starve millions before the war even broke out with the germans . also it was Stalin and Hitler that decided to invade poland , stalin keep killing after WW2 was over.
What I meant was that Russia didn't start the war against Germany. FYI - Japan started world war 2, 2 years prior to the invasion of Poland (1939), with the invasion of China (1937). Some historians mark the begining with Italy's attack on Ethiopia in 1935-1936. In the war, the Chinese lost approximately 3.22 million soldiers. 9.13 million civilians died in the crossfire, and another 8.4 million as non-military casualties.
If I remember my history somewhat correctly, Hitler invaded Poland about a month after he signed an Non-Aggression tready with Stalin. In the agreement, they would carve up Poland between themselves. This arrangement lasted until Hitler broke the treaty in 1941 and took the rest of Poland, continueing on to almost to Moscow. Japan, however, was involved in China prior to 1937. Again, if I remember my history correctly, Japan bombed Nanking China in 1937 (The Rape of Nanking). Depending on the account, between several hundred thousands to a million Chinese civilians died during the assault and occupation. Japan invaded Manchuria about 1931. Can't recalled the details at the moment, but it had to do with some sort of incident at a railroad. In other words, Japan had been at war a full 10 years by the time they bomb Pearl Harbor.
and japan took control of korea even before invading manchuria. It is called a world war because so many countries were involved simultaneously. That started with the invasion of poland and the declaration by the UK and the other allies on germany, not some war that involved 2 countries
I found it interesting that you made this comment. Your initial beef was that because your cultural background was German that by proxy and others ignorance you were viewed as a nazi. I am a christian, and a stong follower of Native American wisdom and medicine. Simply put religion plays a large role in my life, in that it helps me to see the way in which I can live my life in peace with my self, and the world around me, and when that isn't possible it gives me the strenght to have faith for things beyond my controll, and ability. That being said, and seeing as the same is true for billions of poeple around the globe, it is wrong of you to place blame for our collective woes on Religion. Just as the Germans were manipulated by virtue of thier race to prop up the Nazi regime, Religion is often manipulated by a select few for what is almost always an entirely political agenda. So is relgion inherintly evil? Certainly no more than Germans. Evil simply manifiests in the institutions we have created (religion, government, etc) because it is a part of our nature. Evil can't, however, completely hijack those insitutions, it may rear it's ugly head from time to time but in the end the sum of these istitutions is greater than thier parts. If your going to denounce Relgion you might as well go ahead and denounce all culture. It is true, religion places between peoples lines of distinction, as does language, dress, social customs morality, and many other factors which derive from culture. Culture is a solution to a particular set of problems, all culture essentially derives from the fact that the geography of this planet is so diverse, and so as a result are it's people. We are all equal but to think we are all the same is rediculous. The problem is not that we are different, it is that we are ignorant of these differences, you yourself, though not intending to do so, proved this truth. Your reference to the hardline drug laws in Thailand for example, those laws are derivitive and reflective of that culture and it could be said it's not even for us to say whether they are just or not. What is more essential is we accept the fact that in some cultures, as a matter of circumstance, stability is placed in higher priority over personal liberties, or in other places people are so numerous and conditions so dire that life is said to be cheap. We can offer our assistance and perspective if it is asked for, and usually if one shows understanding and respect it is asked for, but we can't forcefully impose our cultural solutions on others, one size DOES NOT fit all. You were quick to point out that your statement on palistinians was not racist, even when no one made the accusation. In reality it was, because you are a racist...but wait, hear me out, because we're all racists, me, you, everyone. Whether or not we chose to accept it we are all to a large degree, a product of our culture, we see the world through the lens of our culture. We iterperit other cultures through that lens, and more often then not the vision ends up distorted and overly simplified, much is lost in translation. The solution isn't to cast away our cultural differences, but to embrace them, the good and bad, understand thier history, thier context, and thier impact on us. Rather than becoming blindly influenced by cultural factors we need to empower ourselves with them, take ownership of our history and identity. By embracing and understanding my culture and roots I have found it has given me the ability to see the roots of other cultures more clearly and objectively. I try not to pass judgement, or make comparisons but instead make an effort to understand why things are the way they. I'm constantly critical of myself, and aware of the fact that it is not just possible, but inevitable that I will from time to time go through a train of thaught which is, in it's nature, racist. Like they say, the truth will set you free, when we acknowledge our racist tendencies it makes it difficult for them to manifest. It's when you supress this reality that it becomes violently explosive. We must not put to rest the discussion of difference or mis-understanding(say for example others misunderstanding of your german heritage), but keep the discussion healthy and moderated by unconditional respect. The Haulocost will never be a closed subject, as a collective we have still yet to actually learn the lessons this tragic history offers. Really we just copped out by demonising nazis, and Hitler instead of trying to understand the entierly human dynamic which made it possible for those events to come to pass and collectivly accept the blame. As a result thsoe events have come to pass again (Rewanda)and here and now in the 21st century we've barely even learned to tolerate one another, let alone understand each other.
What you have to understand is that given the right circumstances, we may all be good and we may all be evil. We may all suffer, and we may all cause suffering. There is no such thing as an evil race or culture of people, but there is also no such thing as an intransicly good one either. We are all human, be we Jew or German, White or Black, Israeli or Palestinian, Tutsi or Hutu. The German people can offer the world Bach, Beethoven, Goethe, and an entire slew of great enlightenment cultural achievements. They may also offer the world Hitler and Mengele. Verily, the Jews may be the people in the concentration camps, starving and oppressed, horrified and degrated, but they may also become the oppressor and cause an innocent people to be forced from their homes and starve in smaller and more desolate regions of their homeland. We have to remember that no race has the right to kill, and no race deserves to be killed. This is because no race is comprised of solely good or evil people. Likewise, no race is comprised solely of sufferers or oppressors. There were good Germans who fought Hitler in his reich, and there were bad Jews who for whatever reason collaberated with Hitler. As long as one remembers that they could be in the situation of the poor, the oppressed, the suffering, one is not likely to become an oppressor. But it is also easy to forget such oppression, and as unfortunate as it is, the adherants of Zionism do not put themselves into the shoes of the Arabs they oppress, nor do they see the irony in the fact that Arabs in their country are forced to have a specially coloured liscence plate when the jews were forced to wear the patch 50 years ago. History repeats itself because people with power dont care that it repeats itself. all they want is more power.
