Jews against Israel?

Say what you will. History is preparing to repeat itself yet once again. When you've grown older, you begin to see trends develope that aren't always visible when you're younger. It's the same play, but the starring roles have been moved around.

If this was something that was easy to see, it would have had it's head cut off long ago. The fact that it has survived and grown proves how effective it's camouflage is.

So if I tell you there's a snake in the grass, when other people will tell you its just a piece of rope, who are you going to trust your life to?

You don't have to believe what I say, but you should certainly exercise a little caution just in case.

Always have a plan "B", friend.


x

 

xex,

your claim to authority is a bit unwarranted and only shows that your conspiracy theory can't stand on its own. I often see claims to authority based on age, but age is not a determinant of wisdom. The way we process our experiences is. Age gives us more opportunities to do that, but so does depth of experience and frequency of meaningful experience (meaningfulness is always going to depend on the individual's perspective.) Immaturity is certainly more common in youth, but along with that there can also be clarity of mind. Perhaps because I'm a bit playful you think I'm younger than 23, or maybe you're aware of my age and are judging me based on that, but it's only my chronological age and B'Ezrat Hashem, at 50 I'll still have the same playfulness, sense of humor and awe. Subjectively my life has been very long and I've had many intense experiences to digest and learn from, some quite pleasant but the majority very painful. I'm no spring chicken.

Maybe your assumption is that I think what the world's gov'ts or what the media tells us is really the way things are, but that's not the case either. Unlike you who chooses to be swayed by other conspiracy theorists crying that the sky is falling and our reptillian overlords, as it were, will reveal themselves to us at any moment, I'm beholden to no one. Just because a voice goes against the status quo, that doesn't mean it's correct. And if it's particularly fanatical and extreme there's a good chance the speaker has convinced himself to the point of no return that he's got a handle on some absolute truths, no different than a christian fundamentalist. There are plenty of folks jabbering away about the Elders of Zion or the Anunaki and every story is different, yet they're all told with the same senseless sincerity and the same sense of our imminent apocalyptic doom.

This is a lot like the argument that one should believe in the Christian G!d to avoid hell. And it's no different than the fear-mongering of any government. Yet many other people aren't claiming the snake in the grass is a piece of rope either. They're just all identifying the snake differently, or suggesting that it's in a different location, or that the grass is what's dangerous.

You don't have to worry about me. I'm always cautious, including with off-the-wall conspiracy theorists who resort to the same fear-tactics as everyone else and whose claim to Truth is partially based on the fact that they disagree with the majority of people. And you still don't seem to have heard what I said about who I support, or maybe you're just not interested in hearing because, as you've done with your theories about the way the world operates, you've also quickly convinced yourself who I am and where I stand.

 

As I said, you can take it or leave it.

This war isn't mine to fight. But you are of a draftable age.

I have several jewish friends and my concern is for them. They left Israel because they didn't want to raise their daughter there. They love their country, but they also see the writing on the wall.



x

 

If you have Jewish friends then you should have a better idea about Neturei Karta than what you've suggested. Even other religious, right-wing anti-zionist groups oppose them.

I don't live in Israel. And I wouldn't want to. As a religiously-engaged and spiritual Jew with very liberal ideas about most things I'd be in a small minority that faces a lot of injustice, nevermind that whole part of the world is so volatile. My issue with your assessment isn't because I think some of the ideas you've suggested are unrealistic, just your attempt to link them together into a cohesive whole. That's where I see you getting conspiratorial. I've met enough Israelis via the web to know many of them are quite critical of their current gov't too. I think it's possible a crazy, maybe from the Temple Institute, might try to do something stupid at the Temple Mount. One of the kahanists has already said the qorban pesach should still be happening, and the Temple Institute (you can google them. I refuse to bump them up in the search engines) are preparing ritual implements for the beit hamikdash.

I'm still getting the sense you haven't bothered to digest what I said earlier, that you're still addressing a projected stereotype onto me instead of basing your sense of what I think on what I've said. I don't support either current gov'ts, or any of the extremists on either side, but I do support the people on both sides.

 

I respect your views.

It is not my intention to project anything onto you personally. I often speak in a wide and general sense, and this is sometimes taken the wrong way.

Were it not for the inroads that have been made into the federal government by groups like AIPAC, this would not concern me at all. But their influence has had a considerable impact on US policies in the region.

As you are probably aware, several AIPAC members have been brought up on espionage charges recently concerning this very issue.

I too, support the people in both nations. But Americans need to understand about how Israel is helping the US shape it's foreign policy over there. The whole area is a powder keg, and the more radical elements of the Israeli leadership are not helping matters any. Seeing how Israel gets it's military aid from the US, it becomes my business.

Its a bad situation.


x

 

xexon,

That might be effective in a first post on a thread, but when it turns into dialogue I can understand why it would confuse people.

I think more than Israel shaping the foreign policy, it's the fundamentalist Christian obsession with Israel. Without that I think it would be a non-issue. There's no Jewish religious obligation to support the Israeli gov't but for many evangelicals there seems to be. And the US isn't only giving millitary aid to Israel. They're also giving it to Egypt.

I'm more concerned with the intentions of the US for the ME than I am about about the Palestinian or Israeli authorities.

 

Jews against Israel is like Jews against money!

 

Don't go stereotyping. Most would find it offensive here.

Political zionism is just that, political. And I never lose sight of that fact.


x

 

When did I stereotype?

And while political zionism may be political, the motiviations of the fundamentalist Christians who support the modern state of Israel are not. That's why they're more of a danger.

 

Not you. I was referring to lifelovefun's remark about Jews and money.

As you know, this is a common view of far too many people. It was also used extensively by the nazis to further their cause.


x

 

Half my family is Jewish and all they care about is money - So I've got a pretty good idea of how some jews think

 

Half my family is not Jewish and all they care about is money too. Ohnoes.

 

Demokratia or democracy does not exist, it isnt practical now days and many countries prefer themselves to be known as 'representative 'democracy'. which is a far cry from true 'demokratia'.

'Representative democracy' is more of an oligarchy controlled by money. Protecting 'democracy' is one of Aremica's favourite ways of excusing war. The fact that you believe this gives America a reason to stick its nose into the middle east is a perfect example. The Americans shouldn't be in charge of 'upholding' any concepts untill America gets its own head screwed on straight.

Modern democracy isn't worth killing or dying for.

 

i agree totally with the previous poster.

 

profoundly unbelievable and also profoundly disturbing.

while so called 'smart people', jewish people,' can hold such tormentedly stupid belief systems as are displayed here........ i for one will not give one moments encouragement to israel or their so- called 'homeland'.

 

Why would you support a Government as oppresive as the Chinese? All though far be it from me to tell you what you have to believe, i do find it strange you would be against freedom of information, generally only Government types subscribe to such ideas. Not to mention you have rocked up a number of posts yourself on this site, and this site is, after all, about freedom of speach.