Jesus Christ, the Sun of God

LMAO how does that make me look bad?

First of all, you can't even prove they said it.

Secondly, even if they did say it, they weren't around to witness Jesus be alive so how are their accounts PROOF of anything?

 

:smilielol5:

 

I think you may be far gone already. I don't believe there is "proof" for either the existence of God or Jesus. It's a matter of judgment based on available evidence. I think there's about as much evidence for the existence of Jesus as for the existence of Socrates and Buddha. Do you doubt them, too? It's by no means unusual that evidence for historical figures of antiquity, other than monarchs who get their faces on coins, is sparse, since professional journalism, modern communications technology and printing presses, universities, etc., didn't exist. I'm convinced from his writings that St. Paul was in contact with Cephas (Saint Peter) and James (the brother of Jesus and the head of the Christian community in Jerusalem). Both claimed to have known Jesus personally. Either they did or they were liars. If it was lies, they managed to put one over on the people in their community, some of whom would have been around to corroborate it. I find the evidence from the various respected Roman historians less convincing, since they probably got their information second hand from Christians. There is also the testimony of the gospel writers, but skeptics could dismiss that as unreliable because it came decades after the death of Jesus. And yes, like you, I think that stories about Jesus became embellished as time went on. In any event, there is no proof, just a judgment call and a bet or act of faith. Like belief in the Illuminati.

What I find particularly fascinating about you is that you are so skeptical about Jesus while believing things like " the New World Order" that are ordinarily articles of faith of the Christian religious far right. You're damned right there's a lot going on behind the scenes in government, and it doesn't work the way it does in the high school civics textbooks. But to claim knowledge of who is really pulling the strings, why, and how is fantasy.

 

I said nothing about proof of God's existence.

There's no way to "prove" it, at least not to mankind's knowledge thus far.

And as I've stated, I didn't doubt Jesus lived until recently actually.

It wasn't any "hatred" for Christianity that make me doubt Jesus' existence, it was all of the similarities he has with the sun God.

As well as the fact that damn near identical stories of Christ were told thousands of years before Christianity came along, in older religions.

That's what made me skeptical.

 

Double post.

 

I understand where you're coming from. Some historians, still a minority, have made a case similar to yours that Jesus was entirely an invention (one theory even goes to far as to say he was a mushroom, i.e., a codeword for a psychedelic shroom supposedly used by early Christians). I just find their arguments hard to believe. It also seems that Emperor Constantine, who presided over the Council of Nicea and helped to establish Christianity in the Roman empire, remained a worshipper of Apollo until he was near death, and that many of his subjects didn't draw sharp distinctions between Jesus, Apollo, Sol Invinctus, and Mithra. I agree that by that time Christianity had picked up a lot of pagan baggage from Greco-Roman philosophy and religious practices. So what are we arguing about? Possibly nothing, except what we picked up from your earlier post that Christians are misguided, Jesus was just a fabrication, and that Christianity didn't differ much form pre-existing sun worship. If the early Christians wanted to make up a divine figure to follow, I think it's unlikely they would have come up with an itinerant peasant carpenter who ended up getting crucified like a common criminal. To me, the thing that's most important about Jesus are his teachings and example of non-judgmental love and acceptance of all people, especially society's outcasts and rejects. To my knowledge, these ideas (or any other moral precepts) weren't associated with any of the sun gods you've talked about.

 

Do you have some other "similarities" Jesus "has with the sun God", seeing as the ones you have used so far were disproved?

 

Nothing I've said has been disproved.

 

I am not sure about the personage of Jesus being a copy or similar to earlier humans. I guess you could possibly being making an argument for Buddha or Confucius but their beliefs were quite dissimilar.

Perhaps what you are referring to is the problem involving portions of the Old Testament being copied from older documents. For example, it appears that the creation story in Genesis is sourced from a Babylonian account known as the Epic of Gilgamesh. And we now know that significant portions of the Book of Proverbs were copied from an Egyptian source known as the Book of Amenomope.

 

Not disproved? You just haven't been paying attention.

 

OK, so you like asking for evidence but you always seem to find some reason to doubt it?

Nothing is written down about his personal appearance in the Bible. So people "guess" what he looked like.

Supposedly? I gave book references and everything! So these boos didn't exist either?

But I don't get this. You don't believe in the existence of a generally accepted historical figure but you believe that he's actually the sun and glows down happily from above? I'm confused.

Okay, so which stories of old do you refer to? I hear this line thrown around but no-one says what stories they refer to for this. So, who? What religions and what stories?

 

How can someone's word be considered PROOF? Especially when they were born after he died? How can you prove someone was alive when they died after you were born? Why are there no accounts of people who actually lived when Jesus did? Why are all the ones (at least the ones you posted) from people who came AFTER "he" left?

Dinosaurs were around before humans and their existence was proven by accident yet there is absolutely no proof of Jesus Christ other than peoples words? This man walked on water but the only people who were impressed enough to talk about it were people who weren't born until after he died?

But this is pointless.

I can post links to references you can look up to see which pagan religions Christianity borrowed the story of Christ from and you can tell me about how Jesus was proven by people who weren't even around to witness him...and we're gonna do nothing but keep going in circles.

 

Perhaps you should look up the word "disproved" when you're done with accept/except.

There hasn't been one shred of evidence to back up the existence of Jesus Christ posted in this thread.

And no court of law will accept eyewitness accounts from people who died 2000 years ago.

 

Yes this is pointless.

You won't accept nonpartisan accounts of people who live at or around the time of Christ and call for "accounts of people who actually lived when Jesus did", and yet when those are produced you say they, what they lied?

Can you produce any account from the time of Jesus that disagrees with these people, that say Jesus never existed, that say the whole thing was made up? There were a lot of people around at the time that had reason to even make up things about him, in fact the Bible says that some even did but nobody, until 2000 years later ever said he didn't exist. So why wasn't there an out cry at the time that he didn't exist? Especially since Christianity was a seemingly small, hated and powerless group, that could not have stopped anyone from doing so.

 

Nobody ever said Jesus didn't exist until 2000 years later?

Huh?

Atheism didn't just pop up the other day and you can't possibly think they believe in Jesus Christ.

And if you posted accounts of people who lived when he did, it wouldn't be cold hard proof but it would be 1000x more credible than accounts from people who came after he died.

And no, I can't provide accounts that disagrees with Jesus' existence. Well I probably could if I looked but only one of us takes other peoples' words as fact. And that isn't to say other peoples' words are completely worthless but for me to even begin to entertain the thought of a man such as Jesus Christ existing, I'm gonna need more than a few accounts that aren't even from people who were alive when he supposedly was.

But I can't prove Jesus didn't exist any more than I can prove flying unicorns don't exist. But that isn't on me. You're the one who has accepted Jesus as your lord and savior yet the only proof you have that he even existed are accounts from people who

1. may or may not have said the shit.

and

2. weren't alive to witness him even if he did live.

That's what you call blind faith.

 

Are you blind or do you just choose not to read people's posts?

 

Once again, accounts from other people who weren't alive when he supposedly was is not proof of anything.

Can you prove someone lived if they died prior to you being born?

If so, how would you go about doing that?

 

The Gospel of John was written by John an eyewitness.

 

What actually counts as evidence to you then? Eyewitnesses at the time in the Bible don't seem to. Non-Christians writing of him were "lying" or whatever.... I don't get it. There is no way for any of us sane people to win with you.

 

Just once stop and think about what you are say before you say it.

No, Atheism did not just pop up the other day but the definition of a atheism is believing God doesn’t exist not that the person Jesus never existed and that is what we are talking about.

After summarizing the references to Jesus Christ and his followers by the historians of the first two centuries, The Encyclopædia Britannica (2002 edition) concludes: “These independent accounts prove that in ancient times even the opponents of Christianity never doubted the historicity of Jesus, which was disputed for the first time and on inadequate grounds at the end of the 18th, during the 19th, and at the beginning of the 20th centuries.”

As I’ve mentioned before there is an eyewitness account, as Monkey Boy points out;

Think about it, using your standard of proof, 99% of the people alive in Jesus’ day didn’t exist

Let’s look at your needed “proof”.

Please show me a actual picture of 100% of the people that lived at the time of Jesus done by someone who lived at the same time. It just wasn’t done at the time.

Please show me the birth records of the 100% of the people that lived at the time of Jesus. It just wasn’t done at the time and even if you could they would not translate into the Gregorian calendar, first because it didn’t exist at the time and second the Hebrew calendar is lunar and the Gregorian calendar is solar , meaning that even if you knew the exact date of birth on the Hebrew calendar that could be fifteen different dates on the Gregorian calendar.

So by your needed “proof” if Jesus doesn’t exist then 99% of the people who lived in Jesus’ day didn’t exist. So it seems that unless you truly believe these people didn’t exist then there is something wrong with your reasoning.

I never asked you to prove Jesus didn’t exist, I just asked you to show me one person who lived within 200 years of Jesus life that said he didn’t exist, that he was made up, that he wasn‘t real.

Actually I have faith, you are the one with Blind Faith.