Jesus Christ, the Sun of God

While jesus christ was almost certainly a myth as proffered in the book the christ conspiracy, human beings are hardwired to believe in god as proffered in the book the god part of the brain – so we’re left with a dichotomy

Hotwater

 

If you knew what you were talking about this might even be interesting.

He wasn't, you can pick up almost any Encyclopedia and look up Christmas and it will say that Jesus was not born on Dec 25.

So what, since Christians were never told to celebrate Jesus' birthday, why would we need to know exactly what day he was born on.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Hell is the common grave of mankind and as such has no place that it exists, except as a concept.

Christianity remains the same it has not changed. The Bible does not now nor has it ever said anything about about Christmas or celebrating Jesus' birth.

You crack me up. :smilielol5:

 

Yeah right, where do you come up with this stuff?

Amen is a Hebrew word, no more no less. You can look it up in Strong's Concordance, it's word number 543.

Strong's says this about it;
אָמֵן 'amen, aw-mane'; from 539; sure; abstract, faithfulness; adverb, truly:--Amen, so be it, truth.



Nothing you say otherwise will turn a Hebrew word into an Egyptian one.


You really might want to do your research before you say things like this that show that you haven't.

 

I've reasoning on the matter that says that it might have taken those men as long as 3 years to find Jesus.

 

Amen

 

Interestingly, in comparison to all the "facts" you seem to have, we have an amazingly large amount of facts.

 

Wow that’s almost as fascinating as unusual occurrence of the number 47 in the star trek anthology


Hotwater

 

Thanx

 

Consider the sources. One of the biggies is Jordan Maxwell, aka Russell Pine, who has been charged by the FTC with conspiracy to defraud consumers involving marketing international driving permits over the internet, and phony credit repair and debt elimination programs. Would you buy a used car from this man? In addition to being charged with conspiracy, Maxwell is a conspiracy nut par excellence. He claims that the world has been ruled since ancient times by a secret society, the Illuminati (tied in with the international banking community and governments, of course) who practice ancient Caananite religious rites and use a "live long and prosper" Spock style gesture of recognition. The part of Zeitgiest(Part I) we've seen deals with pagan models for Jesus, but in Parts II and III we'll get the tie-ins among the Illuminati, the Federal Reserve Bank, and 9-11.

We also have S. Archaya, aka. D.M. Murdock (why do these people always have aliases), who apparently relies mainly on the work of the (very) late poet turned Egyptologist, Gerald Massey, who died in 1927. By modern standards, Massey's methodology is somewhat "loose". For example, his allegation that the Egyptian god Horus had twelve disciples appears to be based on a picture of twelve reapers on a mural near a depiction of Horus with no other connection between them. His allegation about the Egyptian god walking on water like Jesus is based on the story of a different supernatural being, a fish man, Annanes, who regularly emerged from the sea during the day and went back at night. Close enough? What about the virgin birth of Horus? The legend goes that the goddess Isis was impregnated by the penis of Horus' dad, Osiris. This was a miraculus event, considering that Osiris was dead at the time, but not quite a virgin conception. Horus' earthly father is said to be Seb (sounds like Joseph?), but actually Seb was Horus' grandfather, and he was "earthly" in the sense that he was god of the earth. Contrary to Massey, Horus didn't give any sermon on a mount and wasn't crucified between two thieves. He was fed to crocodiles. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. It's easy to find parallels if you make them up.

 

You speak as if the government never tries to make people out to be criminals for standing against them.

Last time I checked every last person who stood up to the government was made out to be some kind of criminal by the media to make them appear to be less trustworthy. They do this to prevent the public from doing the one thing these people ask them to do which is don't believe everything you're told, and make up your own mind. These people don't ask for your money or try to solicit criminal activity, they simply tell you to open your eyes because what you are being fed is bullshit.

And the illuminati has been proven to exist. Bush and Kerry both admitted they are part of the same secret society, as did Clinton. Richard Nixon is on tape describing his disgust with the events he witnessed at Bohemian Grove. No coincidence Nixon is the only president in history to be forced to resign. Kennedy just flat out got assassinated.

If there were no such thing as the illuminati, people wouldn't be ostracized for protesting them.

 

And nothing about your story of Jesus and/or his disciples are "fact".

Facts in the physical world are proven.

Jesus was not proven.

If you can provide me proof Jesus existed...and I mean ANY kind of PROOF, I'll never come to the Christianity side of this board again.

Same goes for every last one of you.

You want me gone?

Here's your opportunity.

Can't provide a pic because there's hundreds of them.

Can't provide a birthday because for some reason no one felt the need to make a record of the day this supposedly remarkable man was born.

What y'all got left, bible quotes?

God's existence is something that can only be proven to someone by themselves and no one outside of them can make them see it until they are ready. But according to y'all, Jesus was a flesh and blood human being who lived in this 3 dimensional reality called Earth just like the rest of us. There surely has to be SOME kind of proof a man who walked on water and turned water into wine (among his many other "miracles") actually roamed earth.

Find it and I'm gone.

 

Found this online you might like.

Here are a few more non-believer accounts of this Jesus from Nazareth, called Christ, actually being seen:
• Cornelius Tacitus, a respected first-century Roman historian, wrote: “The name [Christian] is derived from Christ, whom the procurator Pontius Pilate had executed in the reign of Tiberius.” Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus’ death in A.D.14 to Nero’s death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Nero’s death and finish with Domitian’s death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Nero’s decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus’ surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus’ or Christ’s death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record. See —THE COMPLETE WORKS OF TACITUS (NEW YORK, 1942), “THE ANNALS,” BOOK 15, PAR. 44.

• Suetonius and Pliny the Younger, other Roman writers of the time, also referred to Christ. Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrian’s government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ]. Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.

• Flavius Josephus, a first-century Jewish historian, wrote of the stoning of James*, whom he identified as “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate and actually rose from the dead! (*THE JEWISH ANTIQUITIES, JOSEPHUS, BOOK XX, SEC. 200)

• Lucian of Samosata was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus’ name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.

• Mara Bar-Serepion Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion (spelled either Se- or Sa-), who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.

How's that?

Also google: http://www.google.com.gi/search?q=p...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

The fact dude in the first one wasn't even born till AFTER the supposed death makes it null and void.

Looks like the same applies to 2, 3, 4, and 5.

And it appears that the only thing they're saying is "Christianity came from Jesus Christ".

You serious?

 

But he was invented back in the ancient world only a few year after his death? I gave you proof and you don't want to accept it. Again.

 

By the way, what do you feel about the Qu'ran? Jesus is in there.

 

I am not sure what is going to be proven by the 2 sides here. One refuses to believe and the other believes deeply. And so it has been for 2 millennia. Since I am not a Bible Thumper, I do not have a bone to pick but I do have a leaning on the historicity of the figure.

I would say this, however: his contemporaries, his disciples, did write about him, and several did so at the penalty of death for so identifying themselves as Christians to either the Jews, or in later years to the Romans.

The totality of the writing about this person is rather voluminous and when compared to other historical figures of the time, and in fact it exceeds that of most that did not pen their own works or were not at a political level such as Caeser. And for some reason, all calendars are set on his supposed year of birth (which I believe is 7 years too late but that is another matter).

On another level, I think the odds would be rather remote that this large group of men of varying temperment would risk their lives and die or face harsh imprisonment and beatings for a mirage. And many, many of his contemporaries did die brutal deaths because of their allegiance to him.

So, I think it is better, ultimately, to just deny his claims than to deny his one time historical existence. It just makes more sense. I mean really, when was the last time someone argued over the reality of the historicity of Nero or Cassius or Plato? As one writer and some christians propose, you should forget the historicity Bullcrap and make the decision thusly: is he who he claimed to be (LORD) or was he just a LIAR OR LUNATIC.....pretty simple. It makes a lot more sense than arguing over historicity. :cheers2:

 

Honey, nothing you posted was proof.

You posted supposed accounts of people who were born after Jesus died.

And all they said was Jesus was the founder of Christianity

That is not proof, that is common "knowledge"

Why are there so many different portraits of the same person?

Nothing of what y'all are posting is proof. You're telling me something someone else supposedly said.

And people willing to die for allegiance to a religion doesn't mean anything. That's how religion always was and still is today. Holy wars have always been the most deadly wars for a reason.

But I feel what you're saying, Jammin.

I personally believed Jesus was an actual person who really did roam Earth and was just blown way the fuck out of proportion until I did some research on the correlation between worshiping him and the ancients' worship of the sun God.

Whether an actual person named Jesus Christ really did exist or not isn't even my main point. But the story of Christ was the same story told in religions older than Christianity. That tells me there is a good possibility the story was made up or at the very least, extremely exaggerated.

 

Bush and Kerry both admitted (and never concealed the fact) that they were part of the Skull and Bones at Yale, which is a secret, elitist frat-style society. Bohemian Grove is an elitist get together in the woods, something like a Rainbow gathering for the rich. Not being one of the elite, I've never been there, so I don't know firsthand how disgusted I might be at the goings on, although I'm certainly uncomfortable with concentrated wealth and power. Do you think Nixon was really innocent and was framed? I think that is an exceptionally naive view of a truly disturbed man who used the powers of his office against people he perceived to be his enemies. I think he resigned to avoid impeachment. And yes, Kennedy was assassinated, and there have always been conspiracy stories circulating about the event. I guess you think Oliver Stone was on the right track. I'm sure the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderberg Club, and the Masons fit in there somewhere. They seem to be favorite candidates of conspiracy theorists, rightwing or leftwing, for being part of the secret rulers of the world. But your statement that "the Illuminati has been proven to exist" is certainly questionable. Show us the proof. I find it ironic that you've been mocking Christians for believing in the existence of Jesus when you yourself apparently believe in something for which there is no reliable evidence. It's like saying: "I don't believe in Jesus, but as for Santa and the Easter Bunny..." Of course there are conspiracies. Unfortunately, they're good at covering their tracks. To produce "proof" of a conspiracy, as opposed to rumors and hunches, you not only have to show that wealth and power are concentrated in the hands of the few and that some of them get together in secret societies, but that they plot and work together to use their influence to rule the world. Now if you want to talk about Insurance Company and Pharmaceutical Company lobbyists influencing health care policy, you'll be on firmer ground. By the way, what do you think about alien abductions?

I note you left without comment my statements about inaccuracies in the presentation about Horus and Jesus in the Zeitgeist film. Are you conceding those points?

 

I have no idea what the Zeitgeist film is.

And I don't blindly believe in conspiracy theories so I don't see how you got the correlation between that and me speaking out on Christians not thinking for themselves but that's another topic.

I personally am not a conspiracy theorist, but I do know the media, school system, money, and politics are controlled by powers other than what they tell us. I also am aware of the fact they are close to forming a one world currency (which was introduced by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev just a few months ago) which will eventually lead to a one world government. This means new world order, a phrase that has slipped out of numerous politicians' mouths.

Do I think the government is out to get me? Not necessarily.

But they aint exactly selling girl scout cookies either.

Either way I don't give a shit, God got this.

 

Oh, by the way, these people were not Christians, so why would they just "make it up"? Just to make you look bad?