Jesus Christ lived in India

Hare Krishna!

From BBB...
Christianity has no monopoly on acts of savagery etc. They are unfortunately a feature of life in just about every civilization which has yet existed on the planet.

True, Bill. Acts of savagery was everywhere in the past and it very much exists on this planet even now. We just feel happy talking about civilization..it's just that. It is a foolishness to single out Christianity.

Love,

Kumar.

 

Thanks Kumar. My view is that the propensity for violence is an unfortunate part of the human condition all over the world.
'Civilization' is often only a thin veneer beneath which rage currents of animalistic passion which can break out in many forms.
Myself, I see this illustrated in the example from recent history of the German Nazis of WW II.
Germany was supposedly one of the world's most civilized and advanced nations - yet within a decade under the influence of Hitler, they'd reverted to medieval brutality on an industrial scale. The same country that produced the music of J.S.Bach also built the death camps.

I'm sure all the spiritual teachers of the past taught the need to control those tendencies in ourselves, and gave teachings that we should try to exist peacefully with other people and have compassion for them all.

 

So are you saying that you will just stand there and watch your loved ones being outraged ?

And if you say yes to that , I must say that you would remind me of Nietzches ' Christian fool ' .

*****as the existence of God can't be proven on a rational level.******

Well, both Hinduism and Buddhism insists on direct perception of God, through meditation and yoga and enlightenment. And there are many enlightened masters who had attained divine perfection .

It shows there is something , an intelligence or whatever, that has not been comprehended yet by science. The subconscious has been a focus of Indian psychology for centuries. Western psychology is just two centuries old,and the study of the subconscious has just come recently.

So perhaps , if we wait for some time, we might be able to solve the mystery of God as well. It should not be stated emphatically that "God can't be proved on a rational level" , as there is no conclusive scientific evidence to prove that God does not exist.

Through my empirical observations, I have seen, read and heard a lot of strange things in India , which has not been explained by modern science.I think I will be attacked for this statement of mine .

I am sure logic and reason will one day unravel the mystery of God or existence, as spiritual masters like Vashista, Buddha and Vivekananda has had emphasized reason and logic. Hence their potency should never be underestimated.

Yes, thats true, but Vivekananda also emphasizes the importance of reason even in this as well, and to employ logic and reason in order to eradicate the superstitions from the genuine intuitions.
Both reason and inspiration should complement each other.

As I said before intuition should complement logic. There is no need to get rid of logic. One should be based on logic and at the same time should try to develop the intuitive side as well.


I have read a scientific report on meditation.

The left side of the brain.
The left side of the brain corresponds to logic , while the right side corresponds to arts and music. Some people are left-brain oriented, and hence are very scientific minded while are not very adept in the arts.
Same with the artistic people.

Research found out that meditation helps to synchronise both halves of the brain, and hence the meditator becomes equally creative, artistic and logical.

Logic is clearly needed to get rid of the superstitions . Discrimination is very important in right conduct and building ones character.
And as I said before, logic and the heart or intuition should go together. There is nothing wrong in being logical and loving God or existence.

One should be soft and tender to love the Personal God, and at the same time one ought to be strong and hard as diamonds to embrace the impersonal God, which results in enlightenment.

And there are also many eastern methods of meditation and yoga , which are practiced by Westerners like Kriya yoga, Tantra, Sudarshan Kriya, Vipassana, Zen , and others. And most of them are contented and happy. The great success of
Hatha yoga in the west is also proof of this.

And there are also outstanding western yogis like J.Donald Walters, David Frawley,Christopher Isherwood and many others.

Westerners don't have to change their religion or afffiliation in order to practice yoga and meditation, they only need to assimilate the good in other religions and traditions , and mould them in their own culture .
Christian yoga is an example of this.

It is true that everyone in India is not a yogi . However yoga is getting very popular in India as well, due to its tangible benefits, and many people are studying it and practicing it now.

Many schools in India has added yoga and meditation to their curriculum , due to the recommendation of scientists and medical experts. And this is a recent development.

Hatha yoga and meditation is very effective in getting rid of mental disorders like depression, both mild and severe.

Here's a sample.

http://www.artofliving.org.za/courses/kriya.asp

http://www.harmonyindia.org/hportal/VirtualPageView.jsp?page_id=1232#3

http://www.chakrapaniayurveda.com/news/june202.pdf

 

No - I would fight to defend them if there were no other choice, even though I'd probably not be a very good defender these days, and it would be an empty gesture. It would probably make no difference to the outcame, so you could argue that actually, it would be an irrational act.

I've explained that I am not a Christian, although I do have some knowledge of Christianity as it is one of the things I've studied to some extent over what is now many years. Hence, I can see the argument the Christians make which I stated before, but I don't feel bound by that.
My view is that where there is no choice, one has to respond with violence sometimes. However, if we had a fairer world perhaps there would be less incidence of violence -

If you want my personal view, I'll give it, If you want to know what the Christians belive or have believed in the past, I'm happy to explain to the best of my knowledge - but I don't necessarily think they're right.

Nietzche is interesting in some ways, but I don't really like his morality.

I've done some hatha yoga - these days though I can't do most of the asanas because I have a damaged cartilidge in the knee, and I can't sit cross legged at all without problems.
I can walk, run, dance - but not sit cross legged or kneel sitting back on my heels in the Japanese manner. Hopefully, a minor operation in a few months time will restore normal function once more.

 

ditto, I'm 6 foot and only in my twenties but if I sit cross legged long enough I will be in alot of pain. After 60 minutes my legs go numb and I can't move them. It takes 1 minute to get pins and needles and to have any feeling in them. I concluded it was dangerous. I have only mediated laying on my back. With my shape of body (long legs, slim waist) I think it is impossible to sit in the traditonal cross legged positions.

My stance on violence?, Well if you were like Jesus and knew life was eternal, maybe it would be more logical to save your soul than save your body. Most spiritual masters I've read about (east and west) would never consider violence even under the most extreme conditions. I read Sri Ramana Maharishi once was threatened to be blinded with acid and didn't move an inch. On the other hand I couldn't imagine how you would tackle the Nazi's and Hitler without violence. People mention Ghandhi alot, but he was dealing with a more moral threat. Hitler would have just shot him I guess, and every follower he had.

 

It was the same with me as well. But with practice I have overcome it.Now I am comfortable in it. However you can use any posture for meditation.

You can also do your daily activities in meditation as shown by zen.

Living in the present moment is meditation. --Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.

Check out the thread 'war and the bhagavad gita' for answers to these questions you posed.

 

It's important not to force the body where the asanas are concerned. Some people can't do some of the postures, and no amount of trying will change that. Others find it quite easy. The numbness and pins and needles is due to the circulation being blocked off by pressure on veins and arteries. It's not good to persist with any position that causes that to happen.

Lying flat on the back is a good position for meditation, Also, there is the posture known as 'the god' - the Egyptian gods are often shown seated in this way. Sit in an upright chair with the back held straight, head and neck erect, knees together, hands resting on the knees. This position feels very stable when you get it just right.

 

i think there is a bit of philosophical elitism to suggest jesus was in india

jesus is a wise person... of course he is, he went to india

anyways, in my neck of the woods of america, there are many wise natives who have never been to india nor any ways influenced by their philosophy

 

Thx for the tips bill and niranjan. I have never been able to sleep laying on my back, so that's quite helpful really. I read most people who try and mediate laying on their back usually complain about falling asleep, which was never an issue for me. To be honest the main problem I have these days is finding the motivation to meditate. Also about the time I stopped I would get so much energy build-up up my spine it didn't feel safe really.

Anyway that's way off-topic, but I felt like answering .

 

Well there are different methods - sitting meditation is only one, and not suited to everyone. I'd say that from what you describe, you're better off leaving it alone.


I must say though that I'm a bit intrigued by what you say about your physical build, which sounds similar to mine - tall and thin. I always found the hatha yoga asanas quite easy, even had no problem with the dreaded lotus posture, which most people find almost impossible, and I'd always put it down to my physique.

Just shows that one can't generalize about such things, and that we're all different. What works for one may be ineffective for another.

But actually, I found that the benefits of hatha yoga were mainly of a physical nature, a bit like doing gymnastics, or any other form of disciplined exercise.

 

Check out this stuff, I found it to be very interesting........


http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/arm07.htm



I think the eastern martial arts, including the Indian martial art Kalaripayattu, would soon become the 'devils arts' in these guys terminology.

 

Here are other spooky names of Shiva or the Holy Ghost.


Nishachara : The Night Walker

Like the goblins, spirits,ghosts roaming around at night, He stalks the four corners of the universe, suggesting of rising above all that is material.



Pretachari : The Companion of the dead.

The cemetery being His favourite ground, He is a constant companion of the dead.



Bhutachari : The companion of the goblin.

Lord Shiva , who loves the burial ground, is attended by goblins who are His companions during such visits.



Shmashanavasi : The dweller of the cremation ground.

The cremation ground is his favourite residence of Lord Shiva, suggesting that he stands for the transcendence of the mundane.

 

I think you're not seeing the semantics involved here.


The word 'ghost' as aplied to the Holy Spirit, is another example of an aniquated and outmoded useage. Formerly in english, the word 'ghost' simply meant 'spirit'. There was no 'spooky' conotation indented in this.

This is part of the problem with Christianity - mainly it was formulated in the middle ages, and lacking a knowledge of the general language and forms of expression of that period, it can be hard to penetrate the true meaning.

This is no doubt a function of the non-static nature of language itself. Meanings are always shifting and changing. A word used a few centuries, or even a few decades ago may have had a very different set of significances than the same word used today.

Take 'pneumatic' - most people would immediately think of tyres or something similar inflated with air, but previously, the word 'pneuma' was used for 'spirit', and 'pneumatic' meant filled with the spirit. Mystics were reffered to as 'pneumatics'.

Tricky thing, language.

 

Well Shiva can be easily stated as the holy spirit as well. Its all the same.


After His resurrection, Christ told His disciples that they would be "baptized with the Holy Ghost", and would receive power from this event.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Spirit

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

 

Here is some information I got recently from a christian friend.



When determining what should be considered cannon the elders of the early church determined that of the 42 gospels (for that is how many there are) that only 4 were noteworthy. The others lacked multiple sources and credibility, were determined heretical, or were just worthless text. The ones that remained had multiple eye witnesses, were applicable to all, and noteworthy in importance.


The Gospel of Nicodemus from the Gnostic Bible states that Jesus went to India and received influence there .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicodemus

 

The ahmadiyas, a sect of Islam , also believes that Jesus had been to India.


http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya

 

Personally, I find it very difficult to equate Shiva with the Holy Spirit.

You mention the gnostics - some of them believed the Spirit to be femminine. Similar to tne Greek concept of Sophia, or holy wisdom which was symbolized in the form of a goddess in pagan times.

You have to look at both the Bible and at what Christian traditions have made of the concept of the spirit to get an idea what is really meant. The action of the Spirit as described in the Bible doesn't have much congruence with the action of Shiva.

I really don't think this comparisson of the Hindu and Christian trinities is very useful, as they express entirely different conceptions, and only by stretching both can you make them fit.

 

Shiva indeed have the aspect of feminity in him as well. Remember Ardhanareshwara , where shiva and shakti are one.

I believe there is congruence , as Shiva is linked with auspiciousness , purity, spirituality and transcendence of the mundane and other qualities like the holy spirit or holy ghost.

I don't think the hindu-buddhist trinities are that dissimilar from the christian trinity.

 

OK - you're entitled to your opinion. You'll just have to accept that others differ.
i